Were Ancient Greek coins of different metals but the same denomination worth the same?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gam3rBlake, Apr 27, 2021.

  1. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    A $20 US gold coin is not worth $20. Same was true of the Ptolemies. @Pavlos and @dltsrq are correct. When you see drachmas, think bullion value for gold or silver. Not all drachmas are equal in buying power.

    - Broucheion
     
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  3. MarcosX

    MarcosX Active Member

    August in greece is when they are very abundant,, delicious right off the tree
     
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  4. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    You may find this table by Bill Daehn useful. It looks like his website is down. A drachm is indeed a unit of weight, but what weight it actually entails is quite complex.

    Weight_Standards.jpg
     
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  5. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    So a gold drachma was worth more than a silver drachma?

    Like if someone went to buy something and was told “This cost 8 drachmae” how would the person know whether they meant gold or silver drachmae?
     
  6. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    When someone asks you for $20 how do you know if they mean gold or paper?

    - Broucheion
     
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  7. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    If gold and paper were in circulation together I would have to ask.

    That doesn’t really help much though.
     
  8. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    If the seller was not more specific, the buyer would likely have understood that the price was quoted in drachmae of account and that coins offered in payment would be accepted on the basis of intrinsic value and local practice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  9. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Here's my simple and humble opinion. The drachm was a unit of weight. The value of currency was also measured by the amount or weight of precious metal in it. The monetary system began "practically" and had been almost inaugurated with the famous silver Greek Tetradrachm ( 4 drachma ). It weighed nearly over 16 g. As if saying that a drachm weighed nearly 4 g. We're in the early fifth or late sixth century BC. Later, during the reign of Ptolemy II for instance, a bronze drachm was struck. It weighed nearly 68 g . ( so huge ). I conceived that the bronze drachm at that time was equal in value to a silver drachm struck at the same time or period.
    Thus 1 drachm bronze = 68 g. was equal in value to 1 drachm silver = 4 g. That would imply 1 gram of silver was worth 68/4 = 17 grams of bronze at that time.
    This is simply logical, but there were more complicated things or measures or considerations that should be taken into account. Photo: drachm under Ptol II.

    Ptolemy2 zeus  drachm S3 Akko.JPG Ptol2  70 g .Svoronos788.JPG
     
  10. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    I have answered you already regarding this, yes gold is worth more than silver, just like in 2021. There was a particular gold-to-silver ratio.

    The seller would specify what metal?
    We are talking here about intrinsic value, not nominal value.

    The same when using drachms of another weight standard:
    If a foreign coinage was not accepted at its nominal face-value, it could always simply be exchanged at its bullion weight. A list of donations to the sanctuary of Apollo at Didyma near Miletus, dating to 177/6 BC, includes a silver bowl described as weighing '100 Rhodian drachms, or 62 drachms of Alexander' (SW 29, 1091). The bowl must have weighed around 270 g, the equivalent of 100 Rhodian drachms at c. 2.70 g or 62 Attic-weight 'drachms of Alexander' at c. 4.36 g. Hellenistic money-changers (trapezitai) must have been very used to making this kind of ad hoc conversion between the bullion values of dozens of different local civic currencies (Chandezon 2000).
     
  11. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    @Gam3rBlake. I'll make it much easier to you. Just compare a silver Morgan dollar dated 1904, to a gold Half Eagle dated also 1904 with denomination of 5 dollars and known as Coronet Head due to the small coronet or crown on the obverse. The silver coin weighed 26.7 g. whereas the gold coin weighed 8.3 g.
    It would be easier now to assess the proportional intrinsic value of the precious metals inside both coins, then compare the denominations of one dollar and 5 dollars.
    As for the complications and other considerations.. Well it's also easy. That is in 1901 when silver value rose too high. A Morgan dollar 1901 became more expensive than one dollar due to the amount of silver in it ( nearly an ounce). That's why it's very expensive today in numismatic value. It's rare because people in 1901 melted their Morgan silver dollars and exchanged the silver value for several dollars.
    In this respect, can you compare a Morgan dollar 1901 to a gold Half Eagle or Coronet Head 1901, the same way as Morgan 1904 and Coronet 1904 ? It certainly became a complication.! So what about Ancient Times and the beginnings of coinage ? Hope that could help a little bit. Good Luck.
     
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  12. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    The buyer would know because there's such a wide range in value. It would be like saying: "That costs 100." and someone handing over 100 cents, being corrected "No, 100 dollars."

    Gold was not used for daily transactions because of the high value so there'd be little chance for confusion.
     
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  13. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Yeah but the difference is "dollars" and "cents" are two different denominations.

    But going to a shop and being told "That costs 100 drachmae" is much more confusing.

    Let's say someone wanted to buy a slave and was told "That'll be 500 drachmae" how on Earth would they know if it's silver or gold drachmae?
     
  14. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Yes you did answer but others are still replying so I am responding to them.

    I know the answer now but I'm not going to be rude and just stop replying to everyone who posts.
     
  15. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    That must have made being a shopkeeper maddening.

    I like how the Roman's did it.

    1 gold Aureus = 25 denarii
    1 gold Quinareus = 12.5 denarii

    So then if something was priced at 100 denarii it could be paid with 4x Aureii or 100 Denarii or a mix.
     
  16. Kavax

    Kavax Well-Known Member

    Your question is not trivial.

    Dionysios of Syracuse, at the end of the Vth century BC, reshaped the monetary system :

    He has stopped minting all the silver denominations except the dekadrachms (the famous Kimon and Euainetos coins) and the removal of small silver denominations was filled with bronze coins including the notorious δραχμαι καττιτέρου (drachms in tin)

    Of course, 10 drachms like this one :

    upload_2021-4-30_1-22-40.png


    was not worth 1 dekadrachm (10 drachms) like this one :

    upload_2021-4-30_1-25-18.png


    the two coinage simply not circulated in the same economic sphere.
     
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