Question to dealers, buy offers

I would imagine that an offer of 50% of trends is likely to be a fair offer on many things. Very few dealers have the absolute rocks it takes to price their inventory at "Trends".

Take a look at some recent Heritage auctions and then compare the prices realized to the Trends values for those coins, I think that would be an eye-opening experience for you.

Yes, you are wrong on that.

Coin prices have slumped sharply over the past 10-14 months, with some areas of the market down 20-30% (or more) and it is far worse for currency prices, which are down 30-50% in some areas. The market seems stable at the current levels but that doesn't mean that prudent dealers have not cut prices on their inventories to keep the cashflow rolling, because they have.

lol, that is called being a dealer!

no they are not useless, they help dealers sell coins to collectors not willing to do their homework on what value a particular coin has. You are missing the crucial component here, that the prices "reported" in "Trends" are supplied by dealers who have coins they would like to sell, this clearly leads to inflated prices, which the unknowlegable take as gospel.

No dealer forced you to buy anything, so if you decided not to do your due diligence before purchasing a coin and overpaid for it, then I don't see how this is the dealer's problem.

 

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Ah

I see what all you guys are saying. Yes I see that trends is compiled by dealers, thought it would be fair market value, I guess not.
I don't think me selling to another collector is dealing it's 2 collectors doing business so each can add to their collections. In the case of a dealer it's him selling me a coin for profit only, to use to buy more to sell at profit. I guess I am agitated as I see what has happened to this hobby with crooked dealers and out right thieves buying from unsuspecting people. I know, I know that's in every business, sad.
I don;t think I ever over paid for a coin, maybe the grade was not spot on but all in all I have not been ripped off when buying, it's the selling part I am talking about here.

I think the route to go is not to sell at all, why take a loss ? Keep em. I see that.

Tony

 

I don't know anyone who hasn't overpaid for a coin, and that includes dealers. So I think you're kidding yourself, and that that's probably why you THINK you're receiving low-ball offers. Also, if your coins aren't worth what you paid for them, you've lost money on them, whether you sell them or keep them.

 

Well, I am a collector and have purchased a lot more coins than I have sold but I have probably learned the most when I have sold some of my coins. First lesson: your coins (particularly the more common, replaceable ones) are not worth the prices you see in Coin Values, they are not worth the prices you see in Numismedia, they are not worth the prices, including Bid, in the Greysheet. Accept it and move on and don't assume the worst of all dealers.

 

Paid

Mark, Maybe I did overpay, but if I want it and the dealer has it I buy it. Of course I try to get a better price, but if that's the price, and I want it I buy it. I would never have any coins if I waited for the lowest price there is. I did think I was getting low ball offers now I know different, boy do i know different, this is why I asked the question in the first place, and got some great answers.

Breakdown, yes indeed I see this clearly now, yes I do. I don't assume the worst in all dealers, I have dealt with some very fair guys, I am sure most dealers such as Mark and Dutchman are very fair, there are always bad ones in anything, not just coins. I guess if I want to continue to collect coins I just have to pay the price like everyone else and hold on to them. I just can't see selling at a loss even if it's to buy something else I might need or want, not worth it. As was said common stuff is even harder to get good buy prices for, that's what I collect cause that's what I like. I do think I will get into key dates too though. As long as I can enjoy collecting as I do I am happy.

Thanks everyone for all the input.. Tony

 

Newbie Price Guide Questions

Are price guides more accurate for common date, common grade coins? Both the 2008 and the 2010 Red Book have G-4 Braided Hair Cents at $18. That pretty much matches what I see in stores. I know this is only one example, but it seems like price guides should be pretty good at valuing coins that are common enough to essentially be commodities, especially given their ability to influence the market. I can see where the TPGs have an interest in exaggerating the value of slabbed coins, but what interest would Whitman have?

Can someone point out examples of common coins where the 2010 Red Book price is likely to vary more than 10 percent from what I can see right now in stores in Seattle or Portland?

Also, does "Trends" mean a sort of average value from various price information sources, or does it refer to a specific pricing source?

 

I'm now depressed. I just paid $150 for 1938D Walker in VF20 at our local coin show. I thought it was a good deal, but I guess not.

 

I appreciate the info from the more established dealers. It is difficult some times to figure out what the market is in a given locality.

As for the fair offer. Depends on the dealer. Depends on what the dealer needs.

Remember the collector came first, the dealer is just a way to dispose of things you don't want to get things you do want. -Or to see what you can find that you want. He isn't a bank, a metals exchange, or a market maker, only the collectors can make a market. The dealer makes his living by finding, sorting, grading and presenting coins and supplies in such a way as to make life easier for the collector, and by providing a buffer inventory so that the excess of many collectors can be perused and items selected by other collectors. The only use that a dealer has for anything is to sell it, or use it to sell something else. .

I have had to refer a few enthusiastic locals to the blue book, the red book is retail, the blue book is wholesale. At times 50% of red book is too high for the blue book.

Some years ago Q David Bowers published a book on being a successful dealer. ( it sells north of $175.00 , used, today) Of course he had little overhead for many years, and was primarily mail order. . . But the numbers you quote are pretty much in line. Some of his cardinal rules were to never buy a coin that you didn't need, only buy the best and rarest coins, never buy more than a couple of any coin, never buy one you don't have a buyer for, and never pay too much.

I don't know anyone that follows all those those rules, all the time, but few are as successful as him.

Some dealers get cash poor. One I know had to quit buying after paying out $65,000 on gold in 6 hours. One reputable dealer recommends a $30,000 reserve for purchases.

Some other retail oriented dealers may have less than a hundred dollars in the till.

I would rather turn down a deal and refer the customer to a different shop than pay less than I think it is worth. I refer a lot of customers.

 

Liquidity is something that is going to effect the price that you get for a coin your selling as well.

If I have a customer with money in their hand ready to buy the coin your selling I am more likely to pay you more money for it. It works the other way as well... If I have 6 very similar coins that I have had in stock for 6 months I'm not going to be in a hurry to buy more of them... at any price. It's simply supply and demand.

You have to realize that some of the coins that you don't see very often are coins that we have buckets of....literally. A lot of that stuff the general public never sees.

A good example is Indian head cents. We probably buy 40,000 to 50,000 of them a year at our shop. We pick the better coins to inventory and the rest of these coins get sold to bulk dealers and the general public never sees them in the shop. They probably end up on EBay as unsearched rolls.... hahaha!!

 

It seems like the only way to derive a true value is at auction. Check Ebay's auction results for similar items and if you like those prices sell there. Chances are that you will get a lot more than selling to a dealer especially on modern coinage.

 

Phil its not an insult when they offer you 50%. Its more of a wish, its always up to you to grant or refuse the wish. Traci

 

That is an interesting remark.
L.D, I know this is a very general question, but from your perpespective as a dealer, which would you say are the U.S coin series which see the most demand, and/or which youy know you are always going to find a customer?

The question is general, I know, but would you say for example that the early series - Large Cents, Flowing hair, Draped busts and Capped busts are in general more in demand or easier to place with a customer than Morgans, IHC's, SLQ's and modern coinage in general?
I am biased here becasue I am primarily interested only in the early U.S coinage.

 

I think right now Early American coinage is doing well I don't have a problem selling nice no problem stuff. The pieces with problems are deeply discounted right now because people are passing them up now where they would have considered them before. Silver dollars are always hot for us but these things change from shop to shop. I can't keep gold coins... classic or otherwise... in stock people are buying them so quickly.

 

From what you say d how you say it a think the offer was generous.

From what you say and how you say it a think the offer was generous.

If a common coins retail price is $200 the right buy price maybe $60 or less. As a dealer I'm never going to be able to sell that coin for $200 probablty more like $120. How do you think we make any money?
Remember the tried and true adage "you make your money in coins buying not selling coins".
There are all kinds of problems associated with persons determining what their coins may be worth first and formost is "how did you come up with that"???
For example lets take a MS-65 Washington Quarter. The retail sheet may say as much as $15 but the real price today is 12x face value or $3 and here are the reasons.
1. Common as the day is long, we see bank rolls of them, still only silver BU or not.
2. Nobody is going to want and pay that ridiculus money ($15) for such a common coin. They don't have to there are millions of them.
3. And most important, the dealer that buys this coin is going to move it out for $3.30 this very day. He will be on the phone (if he has quanity of it) as soon as you walk out the door.

So you see, in this case that 50% of retail price would not only be gift it's not based in reality.

Your interpretation of retail price is not based in real world events. Not even 50% of retail.
Hope this helps.