Groats of Edward III are one of my favorite type of coin to collect. They have a very pleasing size and weight, and a nice look in hand when well struck. The groats have the bust of the king on the obverse and two sets of legends, including the name of the mint, set around a long cross pattee on the reverse. A typical example is this Series D groat from London. The series of groats for Edward III have a number of stand-out series, mints, and sub-types. Over the years I have added a good number of groats to my collection. That said, there are still a number of them that I have yet to add to my collection. Several are groats that stand out because they contain errors, such as the misspelling of the name of the mint on the reverse. The majority of groats were minted in London, and is rendered as LON/DON in the inner reverse legend. In some cases the die engraver blundered the legend. My most recent addition has the city of London spelled as LOM/DOM. Edward III AR Groat 4th Coinage Series E 27.1 mm 4.41 g Obv: EDWARD R G REX ANGL Z FRANC DNS HYB Rev: POSVI/DEVM A/DIVTOR/EM MEV; LOM/DOM/CIVI/TAS SCBC.1567 N.1163 This isn't the only misspelling of London that is known to exist. There is a rather rare variety that has London spelled as DON/DON, and another more common with it spelled as LOII/DOII. I have yet to add either to my collection, but hope to in the future. Please feel free to post your coins that have blundered legends or misspellings, ancient or medieval.
Lovely groat, regardless, but the LONDOM [sic] is neat. I was unaware of this variety. Good question. I mean, it does look more like a retrograde N than an M?
Freaking Brilliant post and coins, @TheRed. To @Al Kowsky's point, sometimes the mistakes are attributable --even with London issues, even this late-- to what dies and die punches happened to be ready to hand. A collector from the UK who I've had the honour of correspondence with (and who really should be published) noted that this was especially true of the highly unsettled reign of Henry IV (1399 -1413). In the much more stable reign of Edward III, the mere fact that groats, as a sustained issue, were still in their infancy could account for some of the same phenomenon. ...More to @Al Kowsky's and @lordmarcovan's points, as of the 14th century, the die-sinking machinery would have been in place --under ideal circumstances, at least-- to the extent that retrograde 'N's (and 'M's that look like 'H's, and so forth) would have been much less common than the same kind of phenomenon, which is endemic to (for one collective instance) French feudal of the 12th and 13th centuries. @TheRed, am I making this up, or do retrograde 'N's still occasionally show up on Edward I's 'new coinage' pennies?
I think you're looking at the top coin in the post, not the second one... which is the one @TheRed is referring to. It's clearly an M. Here's a much earlier version of this error! (Reverse mintmark)
Aha! So I now see. Wouldn’t an M of the period normally have been a more curve-sided, Lombardic-style thing? Like so? I see the LOMDOM now. Two “M’s”. Obviously I wasn’t paying enough attention at first reading.
Thanks for clearing up the confusion @Severus Alexander That is a great coin of Maximian (?), I find it funny that the mistake was being made roughly 1000 years before Edward's die engravers were making it. Having to engrave in the reverse is provably much more difficult than I imagine. To your points @lordmarcovan and @+VGO.DVCKS the technology of die engraving was going through a real change under Edward III. The new coinage of Edward I still utilised composite letters in the legends, including retrograde N. Here is a penny of his that I bought because of the quality of the legends. It's really easy to see the punches that were used to make letters like the X, O, D, and W. By the time Edward III introduced the groat in his 4th coinage that was still the case. Class B groats are identifiable because of the composite M and E in the legends. Here is my example where it is clear on the reverse. That began to change with later issues of coins. The M changes from composite to the Lombardic M made with a single punch. The composite letters E, C, R, and S in the series B groat also change to an integral letter from a single punch over the course of Edwards reign. By the time post-tray groats are being issued in 1369 the only letters that are a composite is the N in the inner reverse legend and the X in the obverse legend. The example of a post-treaty groat below has great legends. Sadly not my coin, I don't have $3k for a groat. The coins of Richard II are very similar to those of his grandfather, and still retain composite letters such as the N in LON/DON on the reverse of his groats. My example is Type III from London. It is my understanding that composite letters don't disappear from English silver hammered coins until the reign of Henry IV and his light coinage.
Groats of Edward III have really increased in price as of late. A common example in VF will probably run $200 now, while rare groats or those in EF grade will run into the $1000+ range. The post treaty groat of Edward III from my post above hammered for almost $4000 in a recent auction.
@TheRed, your follow-up is only more impressive than your initial post! Wish you and the UK expert I know could spend an afternoon at a pub. (He preferred bitter, last I knew.)
@TheRed Excellent thread as is usual with your contributions here. The coins are great but the scholarship you demonstrate is just as good. We are lucky to have such expertise here.
Excellent coin and thread! I occasionally see engraving errors in medieval Latin legends that make me assume the engraver didn't read that language. Here is an example. The legend should read "sit laus Deo patri" ('praise be to God the father', 2 Corinthians 1:3), but the engraver botched it: Lüneburg, City, AR witten, after 1379 AD. Obv: *MONETA . LVNEBORGh; rampant lion l. Rev: *SIT . LAS [!] . DEO . PATRI; cross with six-rayed star (emblem of the Wendish monetary union) in center. 19mm. Ref: Jesse 367. Also, one of your previous Edward III groats is now in my collection, @TheRed. It's a wonderful coin and I like it a lot: Kingdom of England, Edward III, AR groat, 1361–1369 AD (“treaty period”), London Tower mint. Obv: +EDWARD: DEI: G: REX: ANGL: DNS: hYB: Z: AQT, crowned bust facing within a tressure of arches, fleurs on cusps. Rev: +POSVI x DEVM x ADIVTOREM x MEVM; long cross, three pellets in each angle; CIVITAS LONDON around inner circle. 26mm, 4.30g. Ref: Spink 1616. Ex @TheRed collection; ex AMCC 2, lot 308.
Thank you for your kind words @Orfew and @+VGO.DVCKS I really can't claim to be an expert though, just a guy that bought lots of reference works and reads them from time to time. @Orielensis I really like your witten and the legend error is icing on the cake. I also have to agree with you that many of the engravers were illiterate. How else to explain some of the errors? I would love to get a few coins from the Wendish monetary union, as I recall it was the first monetary union in European history. I'm glad the groat has found such a good place in your collection. It was the first treaty period groat I ever purchased and it came with a really good provenance. Back when I bought the groat I really didn't care about that aspect of collecting and lost the old collectors tickets it came with at some point in time. If I ever find them I will send then to you.