How many Full Steps do you see?

There is a standard...but there is also some subjectivity. I know that the OP has made good money submitting Jefferson’s and selling them. That’s not luck, that’s knowing what the TPGs are looking for.

 

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I trust the OP's opinion as well. He's been a knowledgeable resource to me on CT.

Back to my comment earlier. I wonder what the experience level was for the graders of his coins? Undoubtedly there's a significant turnover at the TPGs and my guess is that those who stay longer and become more knowledgeable and experienced probably grade earlier series and more valuable coins, leaving the more modern, less valuable series (such as Jefferson nickels, Roosevelt dimes, ...) to the newbies. Of course this is just speculation on my part since I don't have any inside information to back this up.

 

And yet he is complaining that none of the nine coins submitted passed the test...this time. He may eventually get the designation he seeks, but it will cost him additional fees to be resubmitted.

So what does the TPG have to lose when we continue playing their game?

 

TPGs just have to give out enough to keep people submitting without overwhelming the market and taking the financial incentive away to submit.

They make business decisions, not numismatic decisions.

Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm submitting my first coin to a TPG because people do trust TPGs, whether they should or not, leading to higher prices for entombed coins. A raw 1796 NC-2 just won't bring as many bidders or as high a price as one entombed by PCGS with attribution and grade noted. Hence, a business decision.

But it makes me feel like Benedict Arnold knowing that is now more likely to be owned by an investor than a collector.

 

A question: Are full steps a product of strike and die state or more a product of how much gunk the coin picks up once it leaves the mint? Or both or neither, I suppose.

 

It has to start with a good strike with a fairly new unworn die to leave the mint with Full Steps.Everything after it leaves the mint can only harm it. Nothing can make one that left the mint poorly struck or from a worn die magically become FS. Well, except for engraving and lowering standards. Neither of which is good for the hobby.

 

They don't fluctuate wildly from submission to submission, and this is the first time I have submitted Jefferson Nickels to either service and thought the grades were entirely inconsistent with their previous standards. That said, I don't think that they deliberately changed their standards, I simply got a grader who was overly conservative and a finalizer who seemed not to care in correcting things.

What does PCGS have to lose? If I resubmit any of these, they will go to NGC. What incentive do I have to resubmit to PCGS at this point?

The idea that the TPGs micro manage their gradings standards by tightening and loosening across hundreds of different series is absurd. They don't need to play games to increase submissions and resubmissions. Each year the mint produces mass amounts of coins that get graded by all the TPGs. The V75 coins alone put both PCGS and NGC so far in the weeds last fall, that their turnaround times are still over their published standards 6 months later. Then you can add the ever growing World Coin and Ancient Coin markets and they have all the business they can handle. They don't need to jerk around a collector of the Rodney Dangerfield of US Coins, a Jefferson Nickel collector. This was an example of a grader having a bad day, not a conspiracy to get a couple hundred more bucks out of me.

 

Maybe. Maybe not.

But you have dealt with them far more than I have, so I will yield to your expertise and experience.

If I had a question about a Jefferson, you're certainly the first person I would ask.

 

And it didn't take me long to find an example of the PCGS standards that I am used to seeing on a registry quality coin. I search the Heritage Jefferson Nickel offerings every week. I just found this 1947-S PCGS MS67FS shown below.





There is an obvious bridge of the 3rd & 4th steps under the 2nd pillar, and a shallow mark that traverses steps 3-5 under the 3rd pillar. This coin alone should explain why I thought each and everyone of the coins I submitted had a decent chance at getting full steps. Anyone who is wondering, the 1947-S MS67FS has a population of 9/0 and a PCGS Price Guide of $10,500.

 

And another, 1949-S PCGS MS67FS, population 7/0, PCGS Price Guide $6,000.




I swear I am not searching for these, they are just what are showing up in my typical weekly review of HA.com offerings.

 

To me, that 1947-S looks 5-4-5-5. But you are right, PCGS will frequently forgive small bridging of the steps. If that coin is FS, most of what you submitted should have been.

But, as we both know...grading is subjective. I personally don't buy in to the belief that TPGs are inconsistent in the hopes of getting resubmissions...to me that's nonsense. What this is is the natural subjectivity of coin grading. One day, the grader says that is barely 1947-S is a FS coin...the next day they might think it barely misses.

 

Just for fun...I went back and looked at all 9 coins. I did what I used to do with school exam...I would go back over the test and look at any questions I missed to try and understand why I got it wrong. In this case, I went back and looked at the coins knowing full well that each had failed to get the FS notation. I tried to find an excuse as to why each was not given the FS notation.

So, having reexamined them all...8 of the 9 have some (even if so slightly) bridging of the top 5 steps somewhere. Some are incredibly small...but each have some. In my opinion, only coin #6 has none. It doesn't have a couple marks that break the steps...but PCGS lets those go.

I can make the argument to not give an FS to the other 8...I can't for coin #6.

 

And to me, both of the above coins are not FS. But I do understand your point.

 

Late to this one as work has been super busy.

I would have said 6 of them had 5FS.

1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

 

Lehigh96, I have a PCGS graded FS almost identical to #9. I must admit though PCGS does seem to grade a bit tighter than NGC. That could account for the price difference at auction occasionally. Although that doesn't explain why I only see 6FS strikes in NGC holders. My full bell line Franklins on the other hand were just the opposite.

 

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