First of all this is my first post and I'm basically new to the coin collecting world. I discovered this site immediatley after starting my collection and have been soaking up all the valubale knowledge that you guys share, so thanks for that. I have been dabbling with e-bay on various coins (old and new) for about 2 1/2 months now. I have decided that I prefer the modern proof coins due to how much more fun they are to look at and admire. (also doesn't hurt that they are easy to find) However, I have noticed that on all modern PF70 coins, PCGS costs anywhere from 2 to 3 times as much as the same coin in NGC. I am not just talking about their Flag quarters and Presidential dollars. This is just as true with a 2007 Silver dime or nickel or any other modern coin. Does anyone know why this is? I would assume it would have something to due with population reports, but since these are the 2 most reputable graders out there, then why should it matter which one you get the coin from. Shouldn't the pool between the two be combined to get a true population? If anyone would like examples, let me know. I have been keeping a spreadsheet on lots of coins and how much they sell for. Thanks in advance for any info that you may offer! Brad
Howdy Brad - There has been tons written about this on every forum there is. To truly understand it you'd have to know the history behind it. But short version, some of the reasons are - PCGS has/had a better marketing campaign, PCGS refused to grade some coins as 70 for many years but they never bothered to tell anybody that until they changed their policy so that led to the mistaken belief that PCGS had tougher grading standards, and in the Registry program PCGS only allows coins slabbed by them to be entered in the competition so that forces people to pay more if they want to win. There is more, but those are the main points.
Welcome Brad! Now that we know what you like to collect maybe we can convert you to some of the older series or maybe a type set. As usual I think Doug hit the nail on the head - registry sets. Me personally I would stick to the MS69's and ignore the MS70's.
I agree with Doug. As for the prices, I've noticed that too with some of the modern MS/PF 70s, can't speak for all of them though. I know when I was looking to buy the 2007 W 1/4th AGE, PCGS 70s were going for about $100-$150 more then NGC 70s. Same was true with the Bald Eagle 50c Comm, I picked up my NGC 70 for something like $45, PCGS 70s were selling for over $100. And I remember the NGC pop was much, much larger then the PCGS pop in PF70 for the Bald Eagle.
As already noted sort of it's all mostly popularity. Note that on the PCGS web site there are close to 30,000 members. Not sure how many on NGC but I'm sure not that many. Many of those are dealers and at shows they just love to show off and brag about PCGS. This snowballs into many, many other dealers stating all the time things like "It's in a PCGS slab so it must be sold for a higher price". At coin shows too dealers will display a PCGS slab over an NGC slabbed coin of the same type and always brag about a coin in a PCGS slab. Even individuals on this and many other coin web sites brag about a coin in a PCGS slab. It's all just showmanship and advertising. A great example of this is the 1955 Double Die Lincoln Cent. Although there are numerous other Double Dies in the series, usually the 55 is the one talked about and displayed by people. Even the coin Albums usually have a slot for that one. That doesn't mean much though since I've got a Whitman Album with a slot of the 1913 Liberty Head Nickel and those are just not in change much lately. OH, forgot. WELCOME TO THE FORUM.
I'm glad that I don't own any 'slabs'. I think the holders are ugly and much too large for the size of the coin...creates a total visual distraction of the coin for my tastes. To each his own. Have fun! lol
Thanks for the welcomes and replies everyone. I guess the registry explanation could account for some of it, although the price differences seem to be pretty extreme. For example a 2005-S Kennedy Half PF70 went for $26, $30 and $41 in NGC slabs and the only PCGS one I saw went for $106!! That is one heck of a premium. Has anyone written a good informative book on modern coins? Maybe one that talks about things like Doug mentioned regarding PCGS not issuing PF70 grades, etc. Also, if everyone loves PCGS then it seems like there would be more PCGS coins out there. On Ebay (the only place I have experience so far) this is completely opposite. I see at least 10 NGC coins for every PCGS coin, on most modern coins anyway. I guess I need to research these population reports I keep seeing mentioned. Mark - I did start out with some of the older coins just to dabble and see what I liked (a few Morgans, Peace dollars, Buff nickels, etc), but was soon extremely overwhelmed with all the different varieties, colors, errors, toning, dipping, cleaned, etc. Therefore, I shifted to more modern slabbed proof coins that didn't require as much knowledge. Plus they are more fun to look at for now due to their newness, at least for me. However, as I learn to appreciate coins more, I am sure I will go back to older ones. Also, for my wallet, I should stick with 69s, but then I regret not paying the extra for the (perceived) best. Just one of my crazy quirks.
Brad - nothing wrong with moderns if that is what you like. But something to think about is "Therefore, I shifted to more modern slabbed proof coins that didn't require as much knowledge" - I think it requires as much knowledge, just for the simple fact of 69's and 70's. Only on a few 69's is it obvious to me why they are 69's and not 70's. I can't tell the difference. So on my sets of silver eagles I stick strickly with 69 - just because of price and yes they are all PCGS. So I can understand why it can be over-whelming. Who knows maybe you will be like me - I cleared out all my modern stuff and bought a bunch of older stuff in the last couple of years. For about 20 years I bough just about everything the mint sold. The only thing I did not sell were the silver eagles.
I think this is because people prefer to submit to NGC for modern coins. It's like Doug said, for years PCGS secretly refused to grade some coins as 70s even if they were deserving. The only coins that can reach that high of a grade are moderns...since NGC was willing to give out 70s to deserving coins, people submitted to them more frequently. That's why you see so many more NGCs. Combine that with the belief that PCGS has stricter standards (which they don't) and their more exclusive registry (and people pay HUGE premiums for their registry)...you get the higher prices.
