My first ancient gold coin: a solidus of Arcadius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by DonnaML, Apr 13, 2021.

  1. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Great coin, @DonnaML, so many nice clear details and provenance too! I especially like the shield on the obverse. Here's a tiny AE of Arcadius which is all I have from this time period - with a photo in need of update.
    Arcadius Salus.jpg
    so here's v2.0:
    Arcadius Salus.jpg
    Arcadius, AE4, 388-392 AD.
    Obv: DN ARCADIVS P F AVG, pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
    Rev: SALVS REIPVBLICA, Victory walking left, looking right, holding trophy over right shoulder and dragging a captive behind her, chi-rho in left field.
     
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  3. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Donna, Congrats on a great score :happy:! Both obverse & reverse are done in an unusually fine style for a late Roman gold coin. The high relief detail on the emperor's shield is extraordinary :jawdrop:, Constantinopolis is finely engraved, & the Nike trophy shows impressive detail & sensitivity. All these qualities along with the lengthy provenance more than makeup for the wear on the coin :D.
     
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  4. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Way to go/ Donna:D Hope you will add many more to your supberb collection. I have two Arcadius solidi/ here is one to compliment yours....
    4001.216.15_1.jpg
     
  5. JPD3

    JPD3 Well-Known Member

    Kudos on the new addition. Enjoy all your "reads". Very Informative. Bask in the fruits of your labors.
    upload_2021-4-13_20-28-44.png
     
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  6. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I think this misrepresent's the auction fan's position a bit. We don't think auctions typically save the collector money, or on average... just that you have a better chance of catching the low end in an auction than at retail. This may just be because of a higher variance around a similar average. (Example: my winning bid for the Leo solidus above was only 250 CHF in 2017, about 295 USD including fees & shipping. That was only about 155% of spot price at the time. There was no realistic chance of getting a similar coin for that price at retail.)
     
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  7. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Beautiful coin Donna. I'm happy for you. If you members keep showing the wonderful coins, I might be tempted to enter the market, however, I can still enjoy the photos and data provided by all of you. Congrats on your first ancient gold.
     
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  8. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    @panzerman, that Concordia reverse is fantastic!
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  9. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Seated Concordia Arcadius coins are available for the bottom-feeder in low-artistic quality bronze. But, since they're about the same size as the gold, if you squint enough you can sort of pretend.
    Arcadius AE3 RIC X Nicomedia 91.JPG
    Arcadius RIC X 94 (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).JPG
     
  10. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on a very attractive coin with the significant added benefit of a pre-1970 pedigree!
     
  11. Cicero12

    Cicero12 Well-Known Member

    I have uploaded many of my coins, but here is a recent acquisition for which I found a pedigree:

    Provenance: Ex Kunker 347, March 2021, 1173; R. Burrage Collection, Ars Classica XVII, October 3, 1934, 881; Colonel Reginald Keble Morcom Collection, Rodolfo Ratto, February 8-14, 1928, lot 3316; from the Karnak Hoard of 1901

    F66B885B-166D-4E1E-92CE-93F98202DF7C.jpeg CE5A6197-917C-4A9C-8082-8DFA2AF8FC96.jpeg DB78AEEC-FB7C-4974-A618-8507A5765E34.jpeg
     
  12. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on your new acquisition @DonnaML , it is beautiful

    I started a small collection of Byzantine tremisses, the average cost for the more common issues is around 250 to 300 right now. I have 6 now, each a different ruler but this is my favorite.



    Anastasius I AV Tremissis. SBCV-8 1.49gm 15mm
    anastasius.jpg
     
  13. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Congrats to your new addition, Donna. Beautiful gold coin!
     
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  14. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Nice solidus, Donna, an excellent type coin.

    Although the provenance can be traced to Kress, as long as there is no documentation of this specific coin having been seized by the SS, there's really no taint, for as you point out it was unlikely that it was included in the original Otto Heibling inventory. Whenever we get an ancient coin, or modern for that matter, coming out of a European collection, that coin might have been owned by some very dubious individuals through the 1930s and the war. Who knows?

    Here's my Honorius solidus, with heavy bags under his eye (must have been an insomniac), Ravenna mint, 393-423 AD. 4.4 grams

    RIC X 1287d

    This is my only Roman gold coin. I've never been interested in this series, probably because of the cost. This coin was purchased back in the early 90s for around $400, which I think was the going price at the time for these coins. With a a few exceptions, they've always played second fiddle to the aurei.

    D-Camera Honorius, AV solidus, Ravenna, 393-423 AD, 4.4 grams  11-20 -20.jpg
     
  15. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    I think you exceeded your goals with that coin, Donna. It is really a beautiful looking coin with such a warm, golden patina. Now you've placed a new "bug" in my head!
     
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  16. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Your Solidus is awesome @DonnaML, especially the reverse is really superb.

    Recently I got my first and only Solidus, a Leo I the Thracian, like the one from Severus Alexander. I think I have shown it before, not sure.

    The mint masters seem to have reused the same reverse for different emperors - the same angel-victory is on the @ValiantKnight Marcian - guess they had more pressing issues than to struck a new reverse:D

    It was through Leo I efforts that the powerful German military faction's influence was destroyed at a time when the Eastern Roman army was made up almost entirely of Germans.

    RIC X divides this type into two phases. In the earlier phase (457 - 468) the letter G has an angular form and the spear usually points between the second P and E of PERPET. In the later phase (468 - 473) the G's are rounded and the spear usually points between the E and T.

    20 x 20 mm, 4.459 g, 5h
    Constantinople, mint mark Γ (3rd officina), 462- 466 AD (early phase)
    RIC X 605; Depeyrot 93/1; DOCLR (Grierson-Mays) 525; Hunter V 6; Tolstoi 8;

    Ob.: D(ominus)N(oster) LEO PERPET(uus) AVG(ustus), Pearl-diademed, helmeted, and cuirassed bust facing slightly right, holding spear over shoulder and shield with horseman motif
    Rev.: VICTORI - A AVGGG Γ (Victory of the three Augusts), Victory standing left, holding long jeweled cross; star to right; in ex. CONOB

    Don't know who were the three Augusti :confused: nor do I see a horseman motif on the obverse:confused:

    upload_2021-4-14_0-46-5.png
     
  17. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Wonderful coin Donna. I have always thought it would be great to pick up a solidus but I still haven’t found the right one. Yours is a great example of a design that still retains its artistic link to the earlier Roman themes. It is always nice to be able to trace a provenance back that far also.

    The evidence certainly seems to suggest that this might have been the case but if it makes you feel any better I did not find any direct evidence that he was a party member or a supporter. I did a lot of research on several of my WWII era provenances and I do recall that there were some cases of Jewish families transferring or selling their businesses to employees or family friends in order to try and protect as much of the assets as possible. Certainly this was a minority of cases but if I remember correctly (it’s been a while since my deep dive) it was happening enough that the Nazis cracked down on it. I was able to find details on the aryanizing process and post-war settlements for other dealers but not Kress. The only info I found is that Heinrich and Gerhard Hirsch were denied an auction permit in 1935 after which Gerhard moved to Prague in 1937 and continued as a dealer. The Munich company under the name Otto Helbing was sold in 1938/9 to Kress. The only additional info I found was a vague reference that Otto Helbing Nachf was “returned to Gerhard Hirsch after the war.” I have no idea what context this return was in but Hirsch obviously continued to sell under his own name.

    I always tend to think I would like and have a lot in common with the people that owned my coins before me. This thread shows that there may be some previous owners of my coins that were not particularly likable. It’s not the fault of the coin and I’m sure many upstanding folks have owned the coin before and after.

    Here are a few of the coins from an auction in WWII Munich run by Kress.
    C246A052-8103-4D0C-80F6-A11796B59EC5.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Caracalla
    AR denarius, Rome mint, struck ca. AD 206
    Dia.: 18 mm
    Wt.: 3.18 g
    Obv.: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG; Laureate head right
    Rev.: PONTIF TR P VIIII COS II; Mars in military dress standing left, right hand resting on shield, left hand holding spear
    Ref.: RIC IV 83
    Ex Otto Helbing Nachf. 86 (Nov. 25, 1942); Ex Gorney & Mosch Auction 241, lot 3068 (Oct. 12, 2016); Ex arnoldoe Collection


    23C5C4E3-6696-481B-8C5E-11CF1A296489.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Severus Alexander
    AR Denarius, Antioch mint, struck ca. AD 222-235
    Dia.: 18 mm
    Wt.: 3.35 g
    Obv.: IMP C AVR ALEXAND AVG; Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right
    Rev.: PROVID DEORVM; Providentia standing left, holding wand over globe and sceptre
    Ref.: RIC 294
    Ex arnoldoe Collection, Ex Otto Helbing Nachfolger 86, Lot 1585 (Nov. 25, 1942)


    Here is a coin I can trace to a pencil rubbing done by Dattari (pre-1901?).

    388951CB-2D8D-438B-A624-F4CE9ADDED86.jpeg
    AD65A4E6-CF74-4E1A-9A2A-CC8055A55A6F.jpeg
    Egypt, Alexandria
    Antoninus Pius
    BI Tetradrachm, Alexandria mint, RY 11 = AD 147/8.
    Dia.: 24 mm
    Wt.: 13.81 g
    Obv.: ANTωNEINOC CEB EYCEB, Laureate bust right
    Rev.: L ENΔEKATOV, Elpis standing left, lifting hem of skirt and holding flower
    Ref.: Dattari-Savio pl. 111, 8160 (this coin illustrated); Emmett 1383.11; RPC Online IV temp #13607 (this coin cited).
    Ex Robert L. Grover Collection of Roman-Egyptian Coinage, previously held by the Art Institute of Chicago (1981.511); ex Giovanni Dattari Collection (1853-1923)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  18. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Can't afford a gold coin nowadays, let alone the price or value of gold in it. I chose a bronze of Arcadius which was struck at Antioch. The obverse is superb by every mean.
    Meanwhile.. I've been offered a set of 10 gold coins for sale, nearly a week ago. They include Arcadius among them ( What a coincidence ). Of course I didn't get them, though they ask only for the melt value of the coin. We have a serious financial crisis here, as you know. So.. I can only share the photos among my coin-friends. Watching is also is a great pleasure.. It's free. Cheers.

    Arcadi ANTO  No star.JPG Arcadis Ric 9  41b.JPG GolCns O.JPG GdCoin R.JPG
     
  19. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Donna, that's a fantastic coin!

    I don't have any gold to show, but I own a coin sold by Kreß under the company name "Otto Helbing Nachf." in 1942. Just as you and Curtis, I felt very uneasy about this provenance (more on this below):
    Rom – Gordian III, Antoninian, Virtus m. Schild.png
    Gordian III, Roman Empire, antoninianus, 238–239 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG; bust of Gordian III, radiate and draped, r. Rev: VIRTVS AVG; Virtus standing l., leaning on shield and holding spear. 22mm, 5.00g. Ref: RIC IV Gordian III 6. Ex Otto Helbing Nachf., München, Auction 86 (11/15/1942), lot 1757; ex AMCC 2, lot 464.

    Auction ticket and catalogue entry:
    Bildschirmfoto 2021-04-14 um 13.11.06.png


    Like the coins Curtis has shown above, this antoninianus was sold by
    @Severus Alexander in AMCC 2 and consigned by @arnoldoe . As a matter of fact, Curtis and me competed for most of the ex Helbing coins in this auction, and I'm happy to have at least won one of them.

    Just as Curtis, I did some research on this provenance, and I found a 2004 monograph by Wolfram Selig on the destruction of Jewish businesses in Munich under the Nazi regime, which has a section on Heinrich Hirsch and Karl Kreß. I have a scan of the relevant pages (in German) and can send them to you if you are interested. Here is the brief version of what I found out:

    As Curtis mentioned, the Nazi authorities in 1935 denied Heinrich Hirsch and his nephew Gerhard Hirsch an auction permit, and in 1936 prohibited them from selling to private customers. This effectively put the Hirschs out of business. Heinrich Hirsch managed to bring at least some of their inventory and numismatic library to Switzerland, but he had to sell the firm in Munich. Karl Kreß was the owner of a local printing company ("Kreß & Hornung, Buchdruckerei & Verlag") and had produced auction catalogues for Otto Helbing Nachf. The Hirschs and Kreß thus knew each other and had been in business before.

    In August 1938, Heinrich Hirsch and Kreß signed a sales contract. Kreß paid 10.750 RM for coins to Hirsch's niece, 16.650 RM for inventory and the company name Otto Helbing Nachf., and an additional 7.000 RM for a numismatic catalogue library. According to the charts provided by the Bundesbank, the total sale price equals a purchasing power of about $180.000 in 2021. This is very low. It appears clear that Kreß took advantage of Hirsch's situation. Heinrich Hirsch was "denaturalized" in 1939 and all of his property remaining in Germany was seized. He probably expected this and thus tried to sell his company as quickly as possible.

    In the following years, Kreß ran into some legal trouble with the Nazi authorities himself. First, he tried to intervene in favor of Heinrich Hirsch in a lawsuit. The latter had been accused of moving his wealth to Switzerland, which the Nazi authorities considered illegal. Kreß probably got engaged in this lawsuit since the catalogue library he bought remained in Switzerland and could only be legally brought to Munich if the case against Hirsch was dropped or ended in acquittal. Secondly, Kreß initially refused to change the "Jewish" company name "Otto Helbing Nachf." because of brand recognition concerns. This was against the "Aryanization" policy of the Nazi regime and led to another lawsuit.

    I could not find any indication that Karl Kreß was a party member or in any other way ideologically engaged in the Nazi regime, but he certainly seized an opportunity to financially profit from the persecution of his Jewish fellow citizens. Heinrich Hirsch was murdered in Theresienstadt in 1943. Gerhard Hirsch survived the holocaust, returned to Munich, and in 1953 founded the still existing auction house "Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger."
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  20. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    In the almost 2000 years of its existence the coin might have changed hands violently several times. I don't think it's worth to speculate about its whereabouts and in any case it is of a negligible value compared to the ancient artifacts stolen by the Nazis during WW2. The intrinsic metal value is also very low. I don't think such coins made it to the plates in Helbing so most probably there won't be any other trace of it. I would be more cautious to check if the coin was previously mounted as there are a few nicks around the edge and the seller appears to have been quite eager to let it go for a very small profit margin.
     
  21. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Nice coin Donna and a superb addition to your collection. I don't have a gold Arcadius but I do have this 3/4 facing bronze...that I have yet to clean-up.

    honorius1.jpg

    honorius2.jpg
     
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