1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Graded MS65 (no holder !)

Just get in there and bid it back and it's over.

 

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Hi Rubin.

 

Huh....you're saying that all those were created for a few dealers ?

I'm only familiar with the 1913 Liberty Nickels and I thought they were a mistake.

Yup, totally agree. The stories on our coins are often facsinating. To think that most of our 19th and 20th century gold coins only are here today because they were in South America or Europe boggles my mind.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The early mint employees often... subsidized their modest income with moonlighting projects. One reason that there are so many "pattern" pieces available from that era

https://www.money.org/money-museum/virtual-exhibits/1804dollar#:~:text=The unusual history of the,how the coins were struck.&text=The six Class III dollars,edge lettering was added later.

 

Most of the patterns for the Saints and Indian Heads stayed with higher-ups at the Philly Mint like Charles Barberg.

 

If this coin was dated 1924 or 1927, would you even consider paying MS-65 money for it, given those marks? Would you consider it to be an MS-64? Grading is one thing; rarity is another. Rarity does not raise the grade unless you are a dealer who is out to squeeze the last dollar out of a customer.

 

Excellent points....you wonder if the rest of the 1933 Saints were out there if this coin would rate MS65.

In PCGS' defense....if those marks on the left knee are the ONLY major blemishes and the fields are as clear as they appear to be, I guess you can say the rest of the obverse and the reverse make up for it.

I'm not saying it's an MS65, but maybe that's how they saw it. We really need to hear from PCGS and I hope they do explain their grade on this unique coin.

 

Nope!

That’s like saying, this Morgan Dollar is an MS-65 except for the fact that it has a gash on the cheek.

 

I hope enough people comment in the journals and coin periodicals such that PCGS is forced to defend their grade.

It's one coin, maybe it will generate some commentary.

Maybe in June when it's auctioned off.

P.S. I've seen Morgans with gouges on the cheek that got a 65 !!

 

No one will say anything because it's unique item for collectors. All the rest are impounded or perhaps underground, and will stay that way.

As for PCGS, they will go after those who question their grades instead of defending them.

 

Yes it would. It's been reported PCGS had given it an unofficial grade of 65 at it's last sale as well. It's also better than some of the NGC 64s which forces it to a 65 anyways

 

I'm very upset this dog got a 65 so I probably won't bid on it.

 

NCG just announced they gave the same coin, without a slab, an MS66

 

Here are the Langbord 10. Details on the strike and appearance of each coin is discussed at length in Roger Burdette's SAINT GAUDENS DE book:



A little better obverse resolution here:

 

The issue I have (and I am no expert with gold grading) is none of the photos I have seen show much luster or even nice fields. It seems very dull for the grade and ya if I was buy a "type coin" I would not pay MS-65 money for a similar coin

 

I haven't seen Heritage-quality photos of the Weitzman coin nor the L10.

It does appear from the pics above that the fields on the L10 are pretty clean.

 

I've matched up the photos above with the close-up shots in Burdette's SAINTS book:

#1......MS66
#2......MS64
#3......MS64
#4..... DAMAGED/CLEANED
#5......MS64
#6......MS64
#7......MS64
#8......MS65
#9......MS64
#10....MS65

Those grades are from NGC.

 

They aren’t actually good enough to grade off of. Not a knock on you but if people start trying to do that it’s wasted energy

 

I know, but they're the best photos I can find. Can't find anything close to the high-res Heritage pics you see.

You can see if the coins have any gouges akin to the Weitzman Saint and also if the fields are fairly clean. But you're right, you can't get good enough closeups to accurately grade.

 

Huge ones yea but there’s a lot that can easily be missed in group photos. It was really just mostly I’m not aware of any legislate opinions where the Farouk coin is supposedly the lowest grade of the lot besides the details one. Was just pointing it out as that group photo will likely get a lot of chatter about how they’re all better and so on