Trade Dollar opinions

Not being an expert, I'll go out on a limb and just say MS60. That would have been my guess if not influenced by the [better] thoughts of others more qualified.

 

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If it's that obvious and irrefutable, the owner should call 'em on their guarantee.

I encourage folks to check the latest Heritage auction for the upcoming Houston sale. One finds many very valuable coins - copper, nickel, silver, and gold - in PCGS Genuine holders - marked cleaned, etc.

Recently, on a thread about an Indian $2.5, I cautioned everyone to beware cleaned coins in full-grade slabs - even from reputable dealers. I'm not saying there are no cleaned coins in slabs.

I am saying the "key date bias" isn't as strong as some think. It is less likely to cover problems than it is to bump a coin a numerical grade. I believe that to be true. Again - check major auctions. 100% chance one will find many valuable coins in problem slabs - the "key date bias" didn't save 'em.

Does a valuable coin have a higher percentage chance of escaping problem status ? Maybe - but again - not as much as some think IMO. If TPGs get called on it, they have a bigger liability.

Let's beware of "black and white" thinking. It's a continuum - a sliding scale. Likelihood and probabilities. Exceptions don't prove the rule; beware of a few examples leading us to go beyond the data. And very few of us, if any, have rigorously analyzed a broad enough sample to come up with a defendable Scientific Method conclusion. Myself included.

IOW - it's my impression and nothing more. An opinion only, not Scientific Method. Others are welcome to their opinions.

 

Put another way... which is a more serious transgression - bumping a key date coin one grade or sweeping a major problem under the carpet ? Most of the time, it's the latter. TPGs are more likely to "commit" the less serious "crime".

 

Like most trade dollars, it's cleaned.

Like most trade dollars, I don't like it.

Pass.

All of the above IMO...Mike

 

Kaz , nice coin I'd say AU-50 , to 55 , cleaned , you can send her over for a better exam but don't expect her back anytime soon . LOL
rzage

 

okay, holy crap tell us already! this is killing me!

 

Kaz , what's up with the eagles eye , looks off . Sorry after checking some other '78-S s the eye looks ok . I was comparing it with my '75 , never realized all the die varieties on these .
rzage

 

I just got home from the office, I swear, I know you're all on the edge of your swivel chairs (LOL). Here's a photo of the label:

 

I agree that this coin shows too many parallel hairlines in the fields to be due to anything BUT deliberate human activity. My photos show it in a particularly unflattering way; in hand, it is actually attractive with considerable luster, believe it or not! Under a glass, it is difficult to find any sign of circulation wear at all; forgetting the hairlines for a moment, I believe it has the details of an AU58-MS62 coin. The hairlines don't extend onto the devices. It cartwheels nicely and the toning is more subtle than in my photos. I think this coin represents an example of "market grading." It is appealing, looks AU to UNC, but has those pesky hairlines which with the naked eye don't look too bad at 18". I think PCGS decided it was worth AU53 money, rather than a BB. If submitted nowadays, I bet it would garner a Gennie.

When I saw the auction, a couple of hours before it ended, something on the reverse caught my eye, I wasn't sure but it looked... intriguing. With the coin in front of me, I could see this:





It's a DDR, FS-801, described as "very difficult to find in AU and above," "Rare" by Bowers, and Breen also. Trade Dollar expert "keoj" on the CU forum wrote an article about this variety for the Gobrecht Journal, he says that the die was impressed by 2 different hubs, first the 2M hub, use for the 1877-s 'broken hub' variety, and second by the 11-L hub. There appears to be a die break adjacent to the right wing of the eagle.

 

Beautiful. Not a big fan of trades but still beautiful nonetheless.

 

Great info and coin for sure! I think it should have at least graded an AU55. I wonder how much it's worth with those great errors? Is that considered a "white elephant" since PCGS didn't catch the errors or am I barking up the wrong tree? Oh and what auction are you talking about? Great looking coin and errorS!! :thumb:

 

TPGs are exceedingly loose with allowing cleaning on trade (and seated) dollars.

The above is in no way condoning the actions of the TPGs, but rather just my observations of the grading standards as they apply to cleaning and this (these) series in general and this coin in particular.

All of the above said, it's a neat and apparently rare variety, so take the above FWIW.

Respectfully...Mike

 

Great eyes Kaz , and great info , I've got to get a few more of these someday , now to get a good book on Seated and trade dollars , any recommendations .
rzage

 

Hi Rusty, thanks for the comments. All I have are Bowers' book on Silver Dollars, and Vol.1 of his encyclopedia of Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars (fairly cheap without vol.2, which is Morgans, which I don't need), and Breen. I am not a member, but the Seated Coin Collectors' Society has all sorts of resources (the Gobrecht Society) and keoj on the C.U. forums is a recognized expert.. and Tradedollarnut too.

This coin has an interesting cud on the right wing of the eagle- it appears to be progressively enlarging over time, so mine appears to be a LDS.
(not to beat a dead horse, but this is actually a very nice looking coin, with a lot of luster. Since higher grade TD's are quite scarce, I think that is why this one graded, despite the hairlines. If it were xf or less, no way, imo.)

 

Here is a link to the Liberty Seated Collector's Society forum: I just signed up and posted a thread about this coin. http://seateddimes.yuku.com/directory

 

Terrific find! Congrats.

 

@ksparrow

I was looking around at old T$ posts and found this thread. The opinion that this is a 2L over 2M is incorrect. The reverse is a doubled hubbed 2L.

 

Those are some deep hairlines there. One would wonder how they got there without extending to the devices.