Is this MS 64 grading appropiate????

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At first I thought there was no way someone would go to the trouble to counterfeit a common date like this, but a quick search on ebay proved me wrong.

 

Well I talked to the daler on the phone and of course they would never buy a fake..impossible. He said bring the coin by. Needless to say he did not seemed please.

 

It would be best if the dealer took it back as I also do not think it is a MS-64, and that fingerprint on the chin will do nothing but get worse over time.

Jim

 

may have rough fields

I thought that I saw a die chip in the G of God but it is not clear in your photo. In any event, the VAM book says that the 1889 can have dull luster due to the long use of the dies to make the large quantities minted. It further states that the coins may have rough fields. Perhaps this is what got Doug’s attention in your photo(s). I think that the coin looks like an UNC. It may be a 63 like many of mine. Keep it if you like it. If you want to return it and want to keep on good terms with the dealer, then ask if you can have credit to buy something else in his inventory.

Very best regards,
collect89

 

I think I will keep it. The more I look at it, the more I think it's legit. I have looked at counterfiet example on the internet and feel that mine is different. Mine does have a luster, the letters look legit. The one thing that bothered me last night was the rough surface. So your post make me feel better. I know one thing, this is not a 64 and I did not pay for a 64, but I still think I overpaid a little, but "live and learn". Anyhow I appreciate everybodies help.

By the way, does anybody have/recomend a good web site for Morgans?

 

By the way, there is a little die chip in the G. What's the implication of that?

 

Vam

VAM refers to Van Allan and Mallis catalog numbers for die varieties in the Morgan and Peace Dollars. (I may have the spelling wrong). They cataloged many of the die pairs that were used to make the dollars. Several reverse dies include a die chip in the G of God. I just noticed yours but I didn’t see it listed in my VAM book. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it is not a known die pair. The die chip could be considered a striking error on one of their known die pairs. You can go to VamWorld and research this at http://www.vamworld.com/1889-P+VAMs

Very best regards,
collect89

 

Did you weigh it?

Considering it's a common date coin, I'd expect the weight would be off if it's a counterfeit.

Also, does silver pockmark?

PG

 

Not necessarily anymore. The counterfeit coins currently coming out of China are of amazing quality...and they are producing common dates.

 

Out of curiosity, how do they make the weight match?

 

That large gash by the ear keeps it out of the ms64 area IMHO. As for the fake thing, it would not have occurred to me. That would be a really great quality fake imo.

 

Have not weighed it yet. I looked for a scale at work, but could not find one.

 

the obverse may not make 64, but the reverse has great detail in the feathers.

 

For what it's worth, I talked with the dealer and basically told him I may have been mistaken. We had a long talk. My respect for him went up quite a bit. It seems like he really knows his stuff. He told me he was really surprised when I indicated my 89 Moran may have been fake. He said that 89 I had was from a roll they recently had purchased. They go over every important coin with a 20 power scope, weight some before grading. In my mind they may be a little opptomistic on the grades, but that's for me to deal with when buying. He said he sees a lot of fakes come in his shop and is not perfect but can catch most if not all of them. He spouted off coin weights, alloys, die life and a slew of other things. He said bring it by anytime. We had a long talk about coins and its a different side that I have not had the opportunity to see yet. Just an a side comment he made. That he always wonders when someone brings in a key date that is raw, why is it not in a holder. Maybe an indicator it's not real.

Appreciate everyones help. I learned a few things and some web sites to check.
In a way I'm glad I confronted them with this. My trust level is increased quite a bit.

 

I'm thinking MS-62 before reading the grading from the experts. I see a few small pot marks to rate it much higher.

 

62 seems to be fair. It looks much better in person, but probably one or two more marks than need to be.