Relatively speaking.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by kevin McGonigal, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Have you ever noticed that ancient coins often figure rulers and their relatives? Some may be side by side, on one side, or one image on the obverse and one on the reverse. I started going through my collection recently and discovered that I had a number of the latter, but none of the former. I thought it might be instructive to see what other members of this site might have in the way of coins where there is both a ruler and a relative.

    I found out that I do not have such coins that might be considered to have been Greek coins. I don't know if there are any or I just need to buy some more Greek coins to rectify this glaring lacuna in my collection (notice the use of rationalization here). I also found that I have many Byzantine coins that have rulers and sons, rulers and spouses but I have not pictured any here. There may be Roman Republic coins that have both a ruler and a relative, but if so I don't have of those (NB to author: another lacuna needing filling). I have, however, a number of Imperial Roman that do.

    First it might be interesting to figure out why this is so. In some cases it might be an attempt to link a ruler to a famous relative to boast his own image as in "I am descended from Maximus Optimus, Pater Patriae, Salus Mundi, Imperator Imperatorum" and as such my subjects should appreciate me on the throne. Or it might be a promotion of a potential successor. "This is my son, grandson, little brother, adopted son-in-law, in whom I am well pleased. Get used to seeing him". Perhaps there is affection involved. This is my beloved spouse, mother, Divine parent, without whom I would not be so great as I am", something mildly self effacing, but not too much. The Roman ruling class was not much on humility. Whatever the motive, we do find rulers putting themselves and a relative on the same coin. Below are some of these coins.

    From the left top we have first a silver Denarius of Augustus, (RIC 207) probably the most commonly encountered silver coin of that emperor. He is on the obverse and his two grandsons, Gaius and Lucius, being groomed as successors, were joined together on the reverse holding shields. As we know, Augustus was big on survival and outlived all his heirs, a number of them, until only the not too much beloved Tiberius was left. Oh well, any port in a storm. The second coin is bronze As of his unbeloved Tiberius on the obverse and his pious mother, Livia, weaving something with a spindle (and getting ready to snip some more threads of life?. It is Sear 1769. The third coin is a Syrian Tetradrachma with Agrippina on it. I am not sure of the correct attribution of this coin because (any help appreciated) I cannot figure out for sure if the male image is Claudius, in which case it is an Uncle/niece relationship, or a spousal one after he married her, or if it is Nero, in which case it is a mother-son one. In either case it was not a good pairing for anybody. The fourth coin is a Cappadocian silver didrachma with Claudius the adoptive father being paired (posthumously) with his adopted son, Nero. It is Sear 2055. The fourth is somewhat light (17 grams) sestertius of Philip II, and the co-Augustus with his father Philip I (the Arab). He is about ten or eleven years old at the time of its minting and about a year way from being murdered by the Praetorian Guard, anxious to put another notch on its standard. I am not sure of this but he may have been the youngest Co-Augustus to have been killed on the throne. If you look closely on the reverse you can see the father, on the right, looking kindly and proudly at his son. He seems almost beaming at his offspring, fat lot of good it did for him. It is Sear 9279. The last coin is a silver (barely) double denarius of the Emperor, Valerian, one of the better known emperors paired with their co-Augustus sons, Gallienus. On this reverse he is paired with his father with an image that seems very similar to the Augustus one pictured here, the two co emperors holding a shield. It is RIC 277, Sear 2891 (1988 edition).

    Hopefully readers here can provide some other coins similar to these where the ruler and a relative are pictured together on the same coin, maybe a Greek coin, or Roman Republican, if such exist.

    IMG_1975Relativity obv.jpg IMG_1977Relativity rev best.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  3. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Golly, those are nice
     
  4. Only a Poor Old Man

    Only a Poor Old Man Well-Known Member

    What you are describing is best applied to Byzantine coins. Actually, it is considered somewhat of a rarity for Byzantine coinage to have a coin with just a single ruler on it. Sometimes it was an unrelated co-ruler on the coin because of current circumstances, but most often it was family. And it had nothing to do with affection, it was all about legitimising the rule of the people on the coin. It would be either father and son(s), or sometimes a son with a father on the reverse to remind people of the son's lineage. Sometimes they kinda overdid it. Byzantine coins can get crowded as you often get as many as 5 people in total on a coin, I even think there is an example with 6, but I am not too sure. Anyway, here is my example, a father & son one:

    hersolcombo.jpg
     
  5. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    Nice coins. I don't have many with the ruler and their relative on them. Emperors like Constantine I and Septimius Severus struck coins of their relatives without appearing on them themselves.

    This one is from Nabatea, where Aretas IV is 'jugate' with his (second) wife Shaqilath. A few Nabataean rulers featured their relatives in this way:

    Aretas IV Philopatris Prutah, 9BC-40AD
    upload_2021-4-10_17-55-32.png
    Raqmu (Petra). Bronze, 17mm, 3.99g. Two cornucopiae, crossed; between them, Aramaic legend: "Aretas, Shaqilath" in three lines (Meshorer Nabataean 113).
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  6. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I have Caracalla and his mother, Julia Domna:
    Caracalla & Domna (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).JPG
    Also Justin II and his wife, Sophia:
    Justin II and Sophia Sear 366 (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).JPG
     
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  7. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I try for looks rather than rarity in my collection.
     
  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I got 'em confronted:

    [​IMG] Severus Alexander and Julia Mamaea, AD 222-235.
    Roman provincial Æ pentassarion, 10.1 g, 25.7 mm, 5 h.
    Moesia Inferior, Marcianopolis, magistrate Umbrius Tereventinus, AD 226-227.
    Obv: ΑVΓ ΚΜ Α[VΡ CΕVΗ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟC ΚΑΙ] ΙΟVΛΙΑ ΜΑΜΑΙΑ, confronted busts.
    Rev: ΗΓ Ȣ [ΤΕΡΕΒΕΝΤΙΝΟV ΜΑΡ]ΚΙΑΝΟΠΟΛΙΤ-ΩΝ, Dikaiosyne standing l., holding scales and cornucopiae, E (5) in field, r.
    Refs: AMNG --; Moushmov --; Varbanov --; BMC --; Sear --; SNG Cop --; SNG von Aulock --; Lindgren --.

    [​IMG]
    Gordian III, AD 238-244, and Tranquillina.
    Roman provincial Æ 4-1/2 assaria, 12.51 g, 26.6 mm, 12 h.
    Moesia Inferior, Tomis, AD 241-244.
    Obv: ΑVΤ Κ Μ ΑΝΤ ΓΟΡΔΙΑΝΟC ΑVΓ·CЄ // ΤΡΑΝΚVΛ / ΛЄΙΝΑ, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Gordian, right, facing diademed and draped bust of Tranquillina, left.
    Rev: ΜΕΤΡΟ ΠΟΝΤΟV ΤΟΜΕΩC, Homonoia standing facing, head left, wearing polos and holding patera and cornucopiae; Δ< (ligate) in left field.
    Refs: AMNG I 3545; Varbanov 5693; Moushmov 2276; SNG Cop --; BMC --; Lindgren --; Sear --.

    I got 'em jugate:

    [​IMG]
    Antony and Octavia.
    AR cistophorus, 25.6 mm, 11.71 gm.
    Ephesus, 39 BCE.
    Obv: M ANTONINVS IMP COS DESIG ITER ET TERT, Jugate heads of Marcus Antonius and Octavia to right; he wears ivy wreath.
    Rev: III VIR RPC, Cista mystica surmounted by figure of Bacchus, standing to left, holding cantharus and leaning on thyrsus; on either side, coiled serpent.
    Refs: SNG Cop. 408; SNG von Aulock 6555; Franke KZR 472; RSC 3; Sydenham 1198; RPC 2202; Sear 1513; BMCRR East 135-137.

    [​IMG]
    Cleopatra Thea, Queen of Syria, with son Antiochus VIII.
    AR tetradrachm; 15.85 gm, 27 mm.
    Antioch mint, 125-121 BC.
    Obv: Jugate busts, right.
    Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΗΣ ΚΛΕΟΠΑΤΡΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ, Zeus Nikephoros seated l., holding lotus-tipped scepter; IE outer left, A under throne.
    Refs: SNG Spaer 2437; c.f. Sear 7135.
    Notes: Ex-Henry Clay Lindgren.

    I got 'em with one on the obverse and another on the reverse:

    [​IMG]
    Commodus, AD 177-192, and Crispina, AD 178-191.
    Roman provincial Æ 20.2 mm, 4.69 g, 7 h.
    Mysia, Parium, c. AD 179-180.
    Obv: IMP CAI Λ AVR COMODVS, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Commodus, right.
    Rev: CRISPINA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust of Crispina, right.
    Ref: RPC IV.2, 11735 (temporary).

    Faustina Jr and Lucilla Mallus.jpg
    Faustina Jr. and Lucilla.
    Roman Provincial AE 28.2 mm, 16.17 gm.
    Mallus, Cilicia, AD 164-169.
    Obv: ΑΝΙΑΝ ΦΑYΤΙΝΑΝ CΕΒΑCΤΗ, bare-headed and dr. bust of Faustina Jr., r.
    Rev: ΛΟYΚΙΛΛΑΝ CΕΒΑCΤΗΝ ΜΑΛΛΩΤΩΝ, bare-headed and dr. bust of Lucilla, r.
    Refs: RPC IV.3, 10299 (temporary); SNG von Aulock 5725; SNG Levante 1277; Sear Greek Imp 1808.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  9. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Well done. I see there are some Greek coins that pair ruler and a relative and on the Román provincial level as well. I must admit that I don't have all that may Roman Provincials and I am not as familiar with them as I should be. Nice examples.
     
  10. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    3x father & son:

    P1180259bcmm (6).jpg P1220318cleaned.JPG P1130816 Philip II and Philip I (17)cleaned.jpg
     
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  11. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Great coins @kevin McGonigal and a very interesting idea for a topic. I've been accumulating more and more of the Byzantine coins lately and many of them have three or four family members/influencers on them. In some cases there are no portraits like this miliaresion of Constantine VII. Mentioned are Romanus, Christopher, and Constantine VII (Porphyrogenitus).

    constantinevii.jpg
     
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  12. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Great coins so far! @kevin McGonigal, I don't think you're going to find too many such coins issued during the Roman Republic, since there was a customary prohibition against portraying living people on coins, before Julius Caesar famously breached it, followed (ironically) by Brutus. Although there is one coin portraying the Macedonian king Perseus (then long-deceased) on the reverse with his two sons, and another supposedly showing Marius and his son, although they aren't expressly identified, presumably to preserve plausible deniability.

    Here are a few Imperial and Provincial coins that qualify:

    Augustus and his grandsons Gaius and Lucius:

    Detail Augustus denarius (Caius & Lucius) (2).jpg

    Augustus and his son-in-law Agrippa, although of course that's not what Agrippa was most famous for.

    COMBINED Augustus & Agrippa - crocodile - COL NEM dupondius.jpg

    Claudius I and his mother Antonia

    Claudius I - Antonia (mother) Roman Alexandria Tetradrachm jpg version.jpg

    Domitian and his wife Domitia.

    COMBINED Domitian & Domitia Cilicia, Anazarbus.jpg

    Gordian III and his wife Tranquillina.

    Gordian III - Tranquillina Anchialus (Thrace) - jpg version.jpg
     
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  13. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Again, I can see that is in the Roman provincials that one can more readily see these pairings.
     
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  14. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    If you like reverses related to historical events, the reign of Antoninus Pius (138-161) does not have as many as other second-century emperors, but he does have one very important type which refers to his adoption of Marcus Aurelius.

    AntoninusPius1AVRELIVS96274.jpg

    Denarius. 18 mm.
    Antoninus Pius/Marcus Aurelius
    Struck 141.
    ANTONINVS AVG PI-VS PP TRP COS III, laureate head right
    AVRELIVS CAESAR AVG PII F COS, bare-headed Marcus with curly hair right.
    RIC 415a. Sear II 4524.
     
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  15. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    17380.1.11_1.jpg

    Licinius I, with Licinius II as Caesar, Æ Nummus. Nicomedia, AD 320. DD NN IOVII LICINII INVICT AVG ET CAES, confronted laureate and draped busts of Licinius I and II, together holding Fortuna / I O M ET FORT CONSER DD NN AVG ET CAES, Jupiter standing left, chlamys across left shoulder, holding Victory on globe in right hand, leaning on sceptre; Fortuna standing right crowned with modius, holding cornucopiae and rudder set on globe, SMNΔ in exergue. RIC 38. 4.17g, 22mm, 12h.
     
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  16. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    The A. Pius/Marcus Aurelius coin is high on my mental list of coins I very much want. It's not at all rare, but the ones I see are never in nearly as nice condition as yours.
     
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  17. DiomedesofArgos

    DiomedesofArgos Well-Known Member



    7001727.jpg

    Romanus IV Diogenes, with Eudocia, Michael VII, Constantius, and Andronicus, 1068-1071. Histamenon (Gold, 30 mm, 4.41 g, 6 h), Constantinople. KΩN MX ANΔ Michael standing facing, holding labarum and akakia, between Constantius and Andronicus, each holding globus cruciger and akakia. Rev. + RωMANS - EYΔOΠτM Christ standing facing on footstool, crowning Romanus and Eudocia, each holding globus cruciger. DOC 2. SB 1861.
     
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  18. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    i've only one with two portraits, tho they are now with unrecognizable(i can 'see' Marcrinus's features..even if he's sporting a handlebar mustache :D) facial features,..i bought this years ago simply as a "snake" coin...but i got to thinkin' much later (98% sure) it was Marcrinius & Diadumenian Markanopolis provincial..thanks to @dougsmit ..we are now 100% :) not rounds    snake coin 003.JPG not rounds    snake coin 004.JPG
     
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  19. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I think yours may win the prize, six relatives on one coin. There is a kind of solemnity to a coin like this that can make Byzantine coins very attractive, though it does not work so well, I think,in the billon or copper versions of these scyphate coins.
     
  20. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    Denarius of Nero with mother Agrippina junior...

    s2043LG.jpg Denarius of Caligula with mother Agrippina senior... 2kCJe6EmjWd3Fn8Qr4FPLL5eoHQ97N.jpg


    Aureus of Vespasian with both his sons, Titus and Domitian... 2rGYrGe6X8PpTc5SE35y4tQsF9tzgm.jpg
     
  21. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Several cities in the first half of the third century issued provincial bronzes showing husband/wife or other pairings. My most unusual is this Caracalla/Plautilla from Stratonicea. These are not easy to find especially if you want them in high grade.
    pm1415fd3320.jpg

    Gordian III and Tranquillina are much easier and a good way to get her for your one-per set. This one is Anchialus.
    po2260b01986lg.jpg

    The most difficult one is what I have only in plaster (sent to me by a friend in the UK). This is Pertinax Junior and Titiana, his mother, cast from the British Museum specimen. Fakes of this type exist in metal but plaster is good enough for me.
    pa1000tipjalex.jpg
     
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