Different opinions from two TPGs- what did they miss?

It’s not about magic knowledge, you simply have to do your “homework”. Die varieties of Early and Seated halves can usually easily be determined. Books and online resources are available in abundance. If obv/rev are a match, chances are good that it’s a genuine coin. Don’t buy them raw if you don’t know the series.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Bill volume on the Philadelphia halves to 1851 is available for purchase, it is NOT free on line, but the books on New Orleans, San Francisco and CC are available for free,

 

@Conder101, I must respectfully disagree. The Philly book to 1852 is most definitely available on-line for download at LSCC's website which is where I downloaded it from and I just now checked to make sure it is still available - and it is.

 

No - that is only an answer to assure that counterfeits continue to have a safe haven in the market. There is nothing obvious on that coin, like a design error, to show that it is counterfeit. It gets past TPGers. End user consumers have no chance. This is yet another proof that stronger pedigree policies need to take affect to end not just stolen coins, but now also counterfeits. That is how we leverage expertise for the general good.

 

One of these fakes cropped up at the Philadelphia EAC convention. One of the collectors set up an exhibit of counterfeit coins in certification holders marked as genuine. One of the pieces in his exhibit was an "1872-S half dollar."

Here are the photos I took of it. I thought that this thing was really scary.

 

Didn't you see the two different coins in PCGS slabs? They missed at least two of them.

 

Yes, PCGS dropped the ball on these fakes.

One of the factors that has caused the problems is that they are slabbing problem coins. The counterfeiters scrape off some of the problems with their products, which makes them more deceptive.

This counterfeit 1803 half cent got by NGC. It is an 1803 C-3 copy. It was caught because the reverse is too strong above the "H" in "HALF CENT." The real thing is always weak in that area. The counterfeiter strengthened it to make it "better."

 

Huh? @Publius2 gave an excellent answer and also provided a link to the best online resource currently available. “Thank you” would have been a more appropriate answer.

Yes there is. Look at the T in TRUST, that flaw is known from rev K (1875-S) but not supposed to be on an 1872-S:


In addition, the MM style (very small) and position (far right) are wrong for known die varieties.

 

Besides counterfeit coins coming from China there are counterfeit slabs coming from China. Some of the slabs will have real coins in them but a higher grade on the slab.

Also be aware there are counterfeit CAC stickers on real slabs as well as fake slabs.

We've made full circle now. Buyer Beware!!!

 

Can you show us an example?

 

That was me...

 

Slabs are real, certs were killed as a result; really the only thing the the TPG's can do. NGC updates their on-line certs to state "contact customer service" or even "counterfeit" in some cases.

 

The first counterfeit CAC sticker I saw was at the FUN show in Jan. 2019. Then I've seen a few online. Next time I spot one I'll try to get a screen shot. Honestly the CAC sticker is easy to counterfeit. It wouldn't even need to be perfect. I know of small print shops that could do it. I know the CAC stickers are made of high quality materials and their adhesive is very strong but, there is nothing unusual. They are similar to the material used to make registration stickers used on car license plates in some states. Keep in mind that most people will only notice that the slab has a green sticker. How many people actually spend a lot of time looking at the sticker. I doubt most people truly examine the sticker. Bottom line know the coin your buying. If it doesn't look right it probably isn't right.

 

Thanks, when you mentioned it I went to the linked LSCC website but it still only says the first four volumes are available. But when I went ahead and followed the additional link to Bill's website it does show all five volumes. I didn't go far enough yesterday. (I downloaded Vol V and the other additional files that weren't there before. Now just need Vol VI.)

 

I haven't seen one identified as fake yet! I have seen a genuine green bean on a counterfeit coin in a genuine TPG holder though...

 

I'm struggling to understand what you're missing here. There is something very obvious on that coin . . . but only IF you know the series. It was revealed in the second post:

Sometimes there aren't "tells" that an unknowledgeable buyer can apply to identify a counterfeit, if that's what you're asking for. Sometimes you must come armed with detailed knowledge to avoid making a mistake.

As @micbraun said earlier: Don’t buy them raw if you don’t know the series.

 

That line is a die crack transferred from a host coin. There was a genuine die with the same lines

 

No question that the line thru UNI is a die crack. This is shown in the Bugert book -for 1875-S reverse. But the lines through HAL and up to the olive leaves receive no mention at all for any 1875-S reverse shown in the Bugert book. I still think these lines are some artifact of the counterfeit die production.

 

To left of H in HALF, perhaps. The rest of the lines look like cracks

 

@William F , NGC did photograph the coin; I had told them it was a struck fake and sent it in for them to photograph and measure; I have been fortunate to be able to work with a contact there on the latest counterfeit issue.