I brought some coins in to a rare coin dealer, and he said the Morgans I had were an unnatural luster and had been cleaned with something like baking soda or something. I was confused. I could read text off the coins from a few inches away. They look like they have good luster. From photos of other Morgans, these seem pretty similar. What's the deal? Was he trying to get me to sell them cheap or was he serious? I really wouldn't doubt it if they were cleaned, but can I tell somehow?? Thanks guys. You guys are awesome and I plan on sticking around. Thanks for all your insight.
Sounds like you have the same problem that many do when they start collecting - they don't understand what original mint luster looks like. Go back to that coin dealer, explain to him your problem. And ask him to show you coins just like yours, side by side with yours, that do have original mint luster. That's the best way to learn.
He could have been telling the truth or he could be lying. Many, many coins have been cleaned in various ways over the years, going back to a time when the practice was not only accepted but encouraged. Cleaned coins used to be more valuable and more attractive to buyers. So there's certainly a lot of them out there. It could have been cleaned 100 years ago or yesterday. The result is the same. That being said, I've never seen a dealer who when offered a coin for purchase said it wasn't cleaned, unless it was in unopened mint packaging. Anymore, it seems like an automatic response from them because they're the 'supposed expert'. Half the time I think dealers call everything cleaned to try to buy something cheaper (cheaper than they were already going to rip off the seller for) so they can sell it for a larger profit. Only way to tell is to get educated yourself. Sometimes it's not easy telling what's been cleaned and what hasn't. While some become obvious as you learn. I'd never trust a dealer.
Whatever. You don't know anything about my collection. Or that most of my nicest stuff is slabbed or straight from the mint. Your comment has nothing to do with trusting a dealer's judgement (when selling to them), on whether something has been cleaned or not. How often will they say anything in their inventory is cleaned so I'm knocking 'X' amount of dollars off the price? I'm willing to bet that if the average dealer can't tell, the default answer is cleaned. And maybe that just is the default answer period, because the next guy coming through the door doesn't know what the last guy was told. Or the previous 100 people. It's a good premise for lowballing. There's a lot of liars mixed in with the good. To act like even the majority should be trusted is being disingenuous. Unless you have some personal stake in it yourself. The name of the game is to buy something off an uninformed seller for as cheap as possible. You can't tell me the majority will take the high ground.
I would and I have, and that was even before I became one. As phrased, your comment is really an extremely unfair indictment of many honest and helpful people. And, while I understand that there are plenty of dishonest coin dealers (just as there are dishonest dealers/people in other fields), I find it to be offensive.
Even if all of the above is correct, that's still a far cry from advice that "I'd never trust a dealer". And your comment is about as disingenuous as acting "like even the majority should be trusted", which, by the way, wasn't what the poster was acting like, anyway.
It takes a while to be able to be absolutely certain when you see a coin that has been cleaned. I suggest that you get a friend to post pics on this forum for you if you can't post them yourself, that way you will know with varying viewpoints. Also if I were you I would go to the same coin store and ask the guy to see a morgan that hasn't been cleaned and if you see a difference then you will know for sure. Once you see the difference, then a light will go on in your head and you become totally aware of something new. :thumb:
I saw a bunch of little scratches that may be marks from cleaning. I mean, it'd be pretty coincidental if they all had the same little scratches on 15 Morgans. I'll get a good camera and post soon. The other pictures I have are horrible.
The main problem here is any time you try to sell almost anything that has the potential of haggling or chewing up and/or down the prices, that is what is the norm. When you try to sell a car, house, boat, watch or coins, it is up to you to try for the highes price possible and it's up to the purchaser to try for the lowest price. With a house for instance, a seller tries to hide all the faults. The purchaser tries to mention all the faults. Both are haggling for the best deals. A coin dealer must do the same. If they say the coin has been cleaned, has a nick, has a scratch, that's thier job. It's up to you to point out the low mintage, high desires of customers to want that coin or whatever you think of. The dealers are in buisness to make as much money per sale as possible. The purchasers are in a hobby they want to improve for as little as possible. This is just all buisness stratigies and cleaned or not, all's fair in Love and War and Coin Collecting.
That comment is unfair, both to many dealers and collectors. I know a number of each that it definitely doesn't apply to.
What a great chance to ask questions and learn. I have found most dealers love to teach and that helps build trust. Dealer that take the time to help, win customers.
And I find it interesting that the OP left the store confused and had to come here to ask how the dealer could tell. The dealer must not have had time.
In the collection I inherited initially i got excited when I saw all of the bright & shiny Morgans. As I learned more, bright & shiny was not always a good thing when looked at under the magnifying glass. Those little scratches could be due to the circular action of a cloth and/or the substance used for cleaning. Generally, in a mint luster coin, you won't see those scratches. Like several of the previous replies, you'll have to look at some mint luster coins to learn differences between cleaned and uncleaned coins.
Based on my experience I believe you're right. The coin community, both collectors and dealers is pretty small. I've learned that a lot of the long time dealers have survived because their reputation for fairness is well known among collectors. Since many of these collectors are also knowledgable, it's a fair playing field. I've seen a lot of good-natured bantering go back & forth during a sale or purchase. On the collector side, in this endeavor as well as many others, there are folks who have pre-disposed attitudes that somehow they will be cheated before any negotiations begin. Kinda takes the fun out of the whole process...dont'cha think!
Or the OP didn't ask the dealer. And the dealer didn't think he should go into an explanation under the circumstances, not all of which we are aware of.
Of course you do. We all know someone that really doesn't care about saving money. And I'm sure we all know someone that doesn't want to make money on selling something. What I was referring to was the other 300,000,000 people in this country.
This is sort of true but basically a minority of individuals for both. I've known coin stores that used to be great but sank down after numerous changes in personal. Some coin stores stay in buisness due to location with nothing to do with honesty, coin values, or customer handling. Some coin stores start out OK but find to make a decent living, support a possibly growing family, different methods and prices must be altered. I've seen numerous dealers at coin shows start a customer out with some great deals and this fishes them in to become a steady customer and then starts the changes in tactics. With collectors a so called pre-determined attitude of being cheated could well be from thier own person experiences and/or others they know. Stories of excessive over priced coins goes on all the time on this and other coin forums. A new collector sees this and wonders just how many honest people are out there. Again, coin purchases are really similar to buying a house, car, etc where haggling is the method most used.
