Alms for a newbie...

I am not a collector and hope for some advice/suggestions. I have found myself fascinated lately by books where the story take s place in medeival times, especially around the times of Henry II, Richard (Lionheart), and the War of the Roses - I suppose mostly between the late 11th to mid fourteenth centuries in current day England and France. I would love to own a piece of history such as a coin from this period. I have looked a bit on the web, and not seen a lot that appealed in my price range (only around $100-150). I am wondering anyone has any suggestions as to where I might look, reputable dealers, or a particular coin to look for. As I'm sure the case is for most, I'd like to actually be able to see some of the details on the coin, and not just a flat slab of metal.

Sorry for such a broad, newbie type question, but any input is greatly appreciated.

Larry

 

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Welcome to the world of coin collecting. The subject area you have mentioned is huge, particularly in relation to mediaeval French silver coinage. I would be very surprised if you weren't able to find a nice piece for the figure you are bandying about. I'm almost (but not quite) tempted to sell you one of mine

If you have a flavour for the history, may I suggest to you that you try to pick a character or a more definitive time frame relative to your interest so that you can maybe narrow down your choices.

For example, one of my first self imposed `challenges' was to get hold of a french coin from the period of Jean D'Arc. She doesn't appear on any coins of the times, but a coin of the king she basically secured the throne for (Charles de Ponthieu aka Charles VII) does very nicely in that respect. They aren't numerous, but they aren't all that difficult either. Who knows....she might even have used the coin I managed to acquire. I've also since managed to get some coins from Burgundy (her main tormentors other than the English) for the same time frame.

Once you have a better idea of what actually best fits the bill for you, finding a coin of the period should be (relatively) easy.

Ian

 

Thanks Ian

oops!

 

Thanks Ian

Well, if I had to pick a character, it would probably be Henry II and/or Eleanor of Aquataine...if anyone has any suggestions based on that, and what sources there might be, please let me know. Thanks again!

Larry

 

So, you have choices within choices. Sadly, none of which include Eleanor in her own right.

You could go for a coin of Louis VII of France, Eleanor's first husband. There are a few coin types and denominations (obol Parisis, Denier Parisis) you can choose from as your `target'. Some are portrait coins, some have castles/ buildings/ simple inscriptions. The portrait coins are quite good in comparison to Brit coins of that period.

You could go for an Aquitaine coin of Henry II of England (aka Henri d'Anjou Eleanor's second husband). They do exist but they are not portrait coins. There is however more of a joint link with that region than there is with England. As an aside, there are Aquitaine issues for Richard the Lionheart too, as well as from Poitou. Not common though.

You could go for a silver penny of Henry II of England. These are usually pretty crude, and you would pay upwards of £80 for one that was even half discernable . Not particularly good value for money in my books.

Now the question is...where to look for these. My first port of call for the french ones would be www.cgb.fr (after checking out ebay.fr that is). Failing that try an auction house like Elsen (Belgian). I'll have a look to see if there's anything on the go at sites I know of if I get the chance, and post here if I find anything.

A penny of Henry II of England...well, you can try ebay.uk for starters, then Spinks, but i'll defer to Sylvester or someone more into UK coinage for ideas where to get one. I can't in all honesty recommend any UK dealer for that particular coinage, not because there aren't anty worth recommending but just that I don't know of any on a first hand basis.

Ian

 

Louis VII of France Denier Parisis (ebay France auction item #8336335606).

I've had numerous trouble free dealings with this seller and can recommend.

There are also three or four Henry II pennies currently available on ebay one of which looks like it might be worth a second glance but not much more (IMHO).

Ian

 

Ian - thank you so very much

Thank you so much - I really appreciate your help, and clearly you are very knowledgeable about the time period!! I was very embarassed to have spelled Aquitaine wrong in my email...sigh...

Anyway I like the suggestion about Eleanor's first husband - I hadn't thought of that. The coinage I saw on eBay in the US (where I am) I didn't htink much of, nor several of the sites I went to. I did see some beautiful pieces starting at several hundred dollars - everything seemed to be either junk or way over my head. But I will keep looking and thanks again for your ideas...I am off to eBay/Fr!

Larry

 

No prob.

If I were you i'd check out a few possibilities before settling for one.

I've just had a look at www.cgb.fr and they have a denier of Guillaume X (Bordeaux Mint) available (Eleanor's father).. Now there's another possibility for you. They list the coin at €38 (fixed price) and in TTB condition. Their grading is usually spot on too! Unfortunately they don't provide an image, but as it's probably one of the better graded coins of the era you are likely to come across, if I were you i'd email them and ask them to provide you with a scan. It's listed as coin number 15 in their latest fixed price issue. Check it out. CGB are super helpful, and another outfit I can thoroughly recommend you to.

bon chance!

Ian

 

Great postings Ian.
I too have also learned a lot !!

 

You know Ian, so negative there with the Henry II pennies. I happen to really like the Henry II short cross coinage (it's the long cross stuff i have issues with), here's one i picked up;




That was struck around 1180 in Winchester.

The Tealby stuff was pretty diabolical (and this is coming from someone that drools over king Stephen pennies).

I'm particularly happy about it being a Winchester piece as well since Winchester saw a battle that nearly cost Henry II his inheritance (i.e England), and it got Stephen freed. Winchester of course also being the seat of Stephen's brother Henry of Blois the bishop, he gave instructions for the city to be torched to prevent Matilda capturing it, so he was a thorn in Henry's side then, and one that was still around during Henry II's reign as the Bishop of Winchester supported Thomas Becket.

As you might be able to tell the Norman/Angevin transition period is totally my period!

If you really like Henry II (but find historical textbooks a little on the dryside) may i take this opportunity to highly recommend Sharon Penmans books. "When Christ and his Saint's Slept" and "Time and Chance" (there is a third but i haven't got the title of that one) currently i'm reading "When Christ and his Saint's Slept" which deals with Empress Matilda and King Stephen and their struggle. Henry's birth and early years upto his accession are included in this book. Including his first arrival in Englasnd at the age of 14 with an army intending to overthrow the usurping king. Unfortunately he runs out of cash and his mercenaries defect and abandon him and he's in a land full of enemies with no one to help him. So he does what only Henry would do, he writes a letter to Stephen explaining he's stranded asking for a loan of money so that he can go home. Stephen being Stephen is greatly amused by it and sends him the money and Henry goes home courtesy of the guy he's just tried to overthrow (and thus the war rages on unstopped). Any sensible king would have apprehended Henry and used him as a hostage to bring his mother Matilda to heel, end the war and end the succession dispute.

The second book deals with Eleanor and Henry (i figure).

Best place to look?

http://www.onlinecoins.co.uk

is a decent place to browse around for English stuff. Jean Elsen for the French territory stuff.

 

Hey, that one is nearly good enough to get me to change my mind about Henry II pennies. Reet neat (as they'd probably say in Newcastle) !

You wouldn't get that one on the budget available to the original poster though I fear. I would be looking for one myself if you could.

Reading wise, i'm currently refreshing my memory of Thucydides account of the Peloponnesian wars, so I doubt if i'll get round to reading up on ol' Matillda's Machiavellian type exploits in the near future.

Ian

 

True it would be out of the original poster's budget by $50, i forked out £115 for it (all in £5 notes!). That was May this year, i bought it in York. Bearing in mind the coin had been there since Christmas, i deliberated on buying it for near 6 months. I really liked the coin but my money was tied up elsewhere... luckily it stuck around.

 

I think you did pretty good. It's a nice type coin, the value of which can only increase, that's for sure.

I always have a major dilema (almost verging on schitzophrenia) everytime I have to part with that kind of money though. It's maybe a genetic thing we Scots have "go on....you know you want to" : "whoah there boy!" :"whatcha waiting 4. Go 4 it" "are you sure you really really want this coin?" "Woos. Just buy it!" : "I knew I should have asked for a bigger discount. He gave in too easy..blast! I'm suckered into buying it now." .. That kind of thing. (Hey, I have never ever claimed to be sane).

Ian

 

Sylvester,
How large is that coin (MM) ??

 

Excellent!

That's exactly the type of history I'm interested in! Stephen and Henry, Matilda, etc. And as far as books go, the one that got me into this history was an excellent, excellent book, Pillars of the Earth!! Highly recommended

 

Hey Ian, what does your signature mean? I think it's Latin, but I can't translate.

~AJ

 

Welcome Irubin,
Ian and Sylvester know more about British hammered coins than most people.I read everything they post and ask a lot of questions.
I picked up a Richard the Lionheart (denier?..please correct me if that's wrong guys)
It's a bit the worse for wear but you can make out the RICARDVS on the obverse.It really is thrilling to hold these pieces of history in your hands..happy collecting!

 

I think I found one

ok, I think I settled on this one...I've been looking for about a week, and haven't found much. this isn't exactly what I wanted, but it was very close in terms of time period and quality...and the price was not great - 35 pounds (sorry - don't know the pounds symbol on my pc). Did I do ok?
I also bid on a Phillip II denier on eBay...we'll see about that...