Is this a mule or barbarous?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Harry G, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. Harry G

    Harry G Well-Known Member

    Hi all! I just bought this coin on eBay, and am having trouble finding an exact reference.

    It is an antoninianus of Claudius II Gothicus, with DIVO CLAVDIO on the obverse but, rather than an eagle or an altar, it has PAX AVGVSTI reverse.

    Is this a mule of (e.g.) a Quintillus coin, or is it barbarous? To me, the style seems too good for it to be non-official.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!

    claudius ii mule.png
     
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  3. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Weird, that's definitely not a standard reverse for a divo issue.

    I'm going barb, as the portrait looks a little crude to me.
     
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  4. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Göbl Aurelian 84m catalogues as regular 4 such mules with A in left field like yours, plus 6 similar coins without the A in field. Apparently lots of mules were produced in the months following Claudius II's death.
     
  5. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    How big is it (across the widest section)? I agree it looks pretty good if it is barbarous. The legends are even correct! Barbarous coins are usually smaller, perhaps 8-16mm instead of nearer 20mm, and the legends are often nonsense if they have legends at all. Pax looks correct too - many barbarous issues mix and match their deities and their devices.

    Claudius II did have the PAX AVGVSTI reverse, just not with DIVO CLAVDIO, and as @curtislclay says, Claudius II mules were struck during Quintillus's reign.
     
  6. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    Coins of Claudius II combining a posthumous obverse with a lifetime reverse (or vice versa) are associated by some with the Mint Revolt of Felicissimus in the reign of Aurelian. Others class them among the "barbarous radiates". The one thing that nearly everyone agrees upon is that the coins of the period defy complete understanding.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    No wiser statement can be made. Those who believe they actually do have all the answers rarely understood the question. Not knowing can be a fun part of the progress toward better understanding.

    A question: If you were in charge of a mint having trouble keeping up with the demand for coin production, would you throw out perfectly good obverse dies for which you had no reverse match or just use them up with whatever you did have? The answer might be different each time it was asked.
     
  8. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    RIC 282 is a DIVO CLAVDIO obverse with a PAX AETERNA reverse. RIC 283 is DIVO CLAVDIO and PAX AVG. Both these reverses are described as Pax standing left holding olive-branch and transverse sceptre. Neither coin has a field mark. Both coins are part of what RIC calls Commemorative Coins, Series II, and both are scarce. It's not a stretch to assume that your coin hasn't been recorded before but should be included and cataloged as RIC 283a. As others have pointed out, the coins from this period are very confusing, and trying to determine mules from barbarous from official with any certainty is probably not possible.
     
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  9. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    IMO, these were produced by the mint by mint employees, but whether they were an official product is the real question, just like arguing whether the illegally made 1913 V nickels by a mint employee makes them official mint products.

    It's important to remember that from about 268-270 the mint workers were pilfering metal to line their own pockets. Whether that was in the form of silver bullion or just meeting their quota and making themselves a "bonus" with the extra we don't know for certain. Coins like these certainly seem to fit the narrative - just use whatever two worn-out dies you can get your hands on and strike a few dozen when the boss man is at the tavern. If they weren't a combination between a lifetime and posthumous reverse, we'd probably never know.

    The fact that almost all of these "mules" come from the only mint where this problem was rampant further tie them to Felicissimus.

    Divo Claudio / LIBERT AVG
    Divo claudio libert avg mule.jpg

    Divo Claudio / PAX AVGVSTI Divo Claudio Pax.jpg
     
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  10. Harry G

    Harry G Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all your responses! I've heard of Felissimus before, but had no idea he might be connected to striking this coin!

    At its widest, it's 19mm, so maybe in that case it's not barbarous? It also weighs 2.02g if that means anything
     
  11. Harry G

    Harry G Well-Known Member

    Hmm I've just discovered something rather interesting. The eBay seller I bought my coin off, has these two other Claudius II 'mule' coins in separate lots. I'm wondering if I should spend the £15 each to get these others now lol (although I would get 14 other ok coins inc. a Carausius)

    One appears to be of good style, and has AETERNITAS AVG reverse. This looks like it's 19mm in diameter
    divo clavdio aeternitas.png

    While the other appears a bit more crude, and I can't read the legend. This one is only 17mm
    other divo clavdio.png

    By the looks of the patina, all 3 look like they've come from the same hoard.
     
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