2020 D DDO DDR?

It's comprehensive on how these are made.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

From The site mentioned.

"In the Wexler Die Variety Files we define “doubled die” doubling as doubling produced on hubs or dies as a result of a misalignment of the images on the hub and die at some point during the hubbing process. A more accurate term would be “hubbing doubling,” but the term “doubled die” is clearly fixed in our culture and here to stay."

And of course " Doubled Die" is fixed in most minds as being a "doubled squeeze" type DD.He does say it is his definition of Doubled Die, so that's fine, it is his website, but there is significant difference in the 2 and it is reflected mostly by the value of each type for the majority of collectors. But each to their own. IMO, Jim

 

Jim, actually, they're vastly different. Let me see if I can explain this. I'm not knocking either type...

The first type, those indeed are the true hub-doubled dies. They were squeezed by the hub, removed, heated so as to soften, then squeezed by the hub, again, i.e., a second time. They may have even been squeezed a third or fourth time, the purpose having been to reach the requisite depth into the die. The second type, produced from the single-squeeze hubbings, are indeed akin to ordinary strike doubling on a coin, in that they're caused by a tilt, or a slip, or a twist, or a turn, or a hop, or a skip when the single-hubbing squeezes the die. That's what we're seeing from the late 20th Century on. That's why often times these look like ordinary strike doubling. They shadow all kinds of things, thumbs, ears, trees, leaving these images virtually all over. But it's not from a double or multiple hubbing. It's from a single hubbing that, well, went haywire. It's on the die, and then imparted to the planchet. It's a single hubbing, not a double or multiple hubbing. It's caused by a movement within the collar that holds the hub and the die for the single squeeze, not caused by double or multiple squeezes by the hub. There's principally the difference between these two types. FWIW...

 

I do understand the difference, but why try to say they are both doubled dies. One is and the other ,imo, is a badly produced or unchecked single die that vibrates, twists, or some other movement , so the die and planchet doesn't work right on a single squeeze (as the computer designs do, or at least should take that into its calculations) before the die is machined. If that is OK, then perhaps machine doubling due to poor maintenance should be designated a doubled die also ( but you know I would not vote for that) as it twists or vibrates, the same way single squeezed dies seem to do. It is like calling a Yugo a Mercedes. Of course I have no expectations of changes happening, but if the computer design or the coin press itself is ever corrected, then the next step is the "rare" machined die. Jim

 

Since were talking about the single squeeze era, and their varieties . What do you think a strong spread northeast means ?

This should be interesting ......

 

Exactly! If you ask me it’s an effort to disguise the fact these single-squeeze abnormalities they’ve got everybody relentlessly searching for are nothing more than strike abnormalities at the hud-squeezing stage because the hub is squeezing onto a convex blank die and that’s where all the rocking and rolling is coming from in addition to the chamber holding the hub and the die is a slightly wider circumference enabling additional movement. Calling these “doubled dies” is being too kind. These are but striking abnormalities, not doubled dies.

 

What is different here is the original 'paradigm' for hub doubling doesn't apply to the single squeeze. The paradigm shifted. I like the term, 'abnormality' in that the image produced was not the one intended, but when the squeeze happened and things found a 'new center', the image became distorted...appearances akin to the traditionally accepted hub doubling. Jim's quote applies here, I think. But with the single squeeze came new varieties...something to collect (trails, ddos, ddrs). Purists will remain with the original paradigm...the pioneers will accept both I suppose.

 

I like the terms like "abnormality, Stutter, Vibration, Distorted. etc. ", as I know what I would be getting. Newcomers, buyers/sellers, catalogers, might not. If they see an ad in the future for "Lincoln Doubled Die 2022-038" and with little experience, they are thinking "Wow , lucky me, better hurry" ~ and then they show up with it here and think we are trying to steal it from them or are disrespecting them no matter how gentle we try to be, is not a good start for them in a great hobby. Jim

 

Dazzle them with brilliance .
Or baffle them with BS .

I think BS is the case here ...

 

Here's some info on hubs & die making .

Step One: Die Making
After a coin or medal design is selected and a digital sculpt finalized as described in part one of this series, die making begins the production process.

In the die making process, the Mint makes several generations of hubs and dies. Hubs show a positive image the way the artist created it. Dies are like a photo negative, displaying the design in reverse.

A computer-controlled milling machine cuts the design into the end of a steel cylinder to make the master hub. The master hub is used to make master dies. To make a master die, a press pushes the master hub into another steel cylinder with a cone-shaped end to transfer the image. The master dies make the working hubs. Working hubs then make the working dies that actually strike the coins.

The Philadelphia Mint makes master hubs and dies for all the coins and medals the U.S. Mint produces. The Denver Mint receives master dies from Philadelphia to produce its own working hubs and dies. Both Denver and Philadelphia make working dies for the San Francisco and West Point Mint facilities.

Here's where the info came from .
For all you fact checkers .
https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-the-mint/how-coins-are-made-coin-production-terminology

 

It'd be considered a doubled die because the working die has doubled design present. I don't see how they're all that different from the multi-squeeze era varieties. There is even peripheral doubling on some Shield cents that mirrors something from the multi-squeeze era. Just recently, Shannon McCord discovered the nicest known DDR on a Shield cent. It's very visible in STATES.

 

I fail to understand how they're not doubled dies if the working die has been doubled from the hubbing process. The same mechanism that produces tiny extra bits of metal also produces an entire separate pump handle on ATB Homestead.