Another burglary . . . this time it was Barry Stuppler's shop.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by ToughCOINS, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Good thing they didn't get to the high powered stuff . . .

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  3. serdogthehound

    serdogthehound Well-Known Member

    This suck ! Can you post the link in from email Please
     
  4. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

    No end to it as long as the industry doesn't support an effort to ferret it out of the business. I read about4 new robberies this week, 3 having to do with delivery services, and one was assualt of a dealer.
     
    xCoin-Hoarder'92x likes this.
  5. Joel Turner

    Joel Turner Active Member Supporter

  6. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    What kind of safe do these places have for their expensive stuff ?

    Can't you get a smaller version of those SDB safe doors that we see at the banks ?

    Barring that, I would think a super-heavy duty gun safe or something like that.....with camera/Wi-Fi.....burglar alarms....should have provided safety and a deterrent.
     
  7. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum


    The solution is not better safes. The solution is coin identifcation and a secure database that identifies stolen goods prior to any purchase or sale and the refusal to do business with crooks.
     
    capthank likes this.
  8. cplradar

    cplradar Talmud Chuchum

    it would also help if the cops got off their duffs and did investigated these events.
     
    Rushmore and Southernman189 like this.
  9. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis OWNER - EBS Numis LLC Supporter

    What a shame. Lots of nice stuff on that list.
     
    cplradar likes this.
  10. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    The best solution is education and promoting a culture of lawfulness.
     
    Marsden likes this.
  11. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Cliff Reuter and cplradar like this.
  12. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    If the burglar sells them to someone who doesn’t know they are stolen would the buyer be legally required to return it?

    That would suck so much to buy a stolen coin.
     
  13. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Yes, the buyer would be required by law to return any stolen merchandise. The problem with your scenario is, you said the buyer was unaware of the fact they were stolen. How would they know they had to return it?
     
  14. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    Well look at the site above for example.

    There are certification numbers for some of the coins stolen.

    So imagine if someone went to a coin show after saving up some money, happily paid the money to get a cool St. Gaudens Double Eagle, and then later found out that they have a coin with a certification number that matches the stolen one.

    They'd have to give back their $2,000 purchase for nothing even though they had nothing to do with the robbery and paid full retail price for it.

    In the end the victim gets their coin back, the thief gets the money, and the buyer ends up screwed losing both their money and the coin they bought.
     
  15. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    EC9B8AFB-5BED-402C-9B6B-4ACCCD998C3C.jpeg
    not much use when they just melt it down! Most of them steal for drugs, so at best go check your nearest coinstar!
     
  16. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Most of these thieves are drug addicts or small-time thieves. They don't carry heavy-equipment and unless they are targeting an isolated/rural home/shop....they want to get IN and OUT very quickly.

    So unless they have a power crowbar or some other equipment to break into a safe, I maintain that while not break-in proof, a heavy-duty safe should provide enough deterrence and security particularly with Wi-Fi security cheap compared to cameras 20 or 30 years ago.
     
  17. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Correct. It sucks, but dems da rules.

    I suppose you could approach the reputable dealer you bought it from and negotiate with them some kind of equitable split of the loss. I mean they're the ones who bought it before you and with their reputation on the line for not doing their DD before buying stolen coins they might be willing to work something out with you. They aren't required to do so, but once again, them avoiding the harsh reality of a tarnished reputation they might talk turkey with you.

    I'd be approaching that conversation very diplomatically. Having a customer plaster that scenario all over the internet might be worth the $2k-$3k hush money to avoid one of the worst forms of bad business a coin dealer can endure.
     
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  18. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    I could be wrong on some points, but in a nutshell, if the coin(s) were insured, and the insurance pays the victim, and then releases claim, and the current possessor has a legitimate bill of sale from a reputable seller, they'll probably get to keep the coin.

    *I am not an attorney, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I know this is basically how it works, just not sure of all the red tape and finer details.
     
    Gam3rBlake and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  19. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    This would be a very important deterrent and with the technology we have had for years I am surprised one has never been set up. Raw coins would still be a serious problem but it should be fairly simple for slabbed coins as long as the coin remains slabbed. Setting up the database should be fairly simple and since most everyone has a smartphone nowadays it should be fairly easy to simply have it set so you take your smartphone scan the barcode or enter the serial number and it would access the database and tell you if the coin is reported stolen or not.

    You would need a central reporting spot that people could send police reports with lists of stolen items to that would add them to the database. (You would need the police report to ensure the coins are actually stolen and not a prank report.) The problem might come with recovered coins. How do you ensure the recovery is reported so the listing can be deleted from the database? And how do you confirm the coin has actually been recovered and it isn't just being reported as such so the thief can then sell it? There are definitely problems to be worked out but I do think it would be a very good thing for the hobby.

    Yes.

    If he knows who he purchased the coin from he can go back an insist on reimbursement because the dealers can't legally sell stolen goods and can't pass good title. this is more difficult with raw coins because how do you prove the coin you have is the one he sold you. Of course the flip side to that is how do they prove the raw coin you bought is the one that was stolen?

    This would be the good thing about the database I described earlier. The potential buy could do a quick scan before the purchase is concluded and learn the coin is stolen before he pays his money.

    The problem is the insurance company doesn't want to be out the money either so typically they take ownership of the recovered coin and then sell it. The original owner can return to payment and keep the coin, or the person who recovered it can reimburse the ins company and keep the coin, but in that case he has effectively paid for the coin twice.
     
    Beefer518 likes this.
  20. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    Regarding the possibility of buying what turns out to be stolen merchandise from a dealer etc. : KNOW YOUR SELLER. Make sure you can trust they are not buying stolen merchandise - can be difficult - but if someone seems a bit shady perhaps they are.
     
  21. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    Where I work which isn't even a cash business the doors are electromagnetic lock and shatterproof glass, we have an alarm, our server room and gun closet's both are interior walls only and cinder block and both also have electromagnetic locks and steel fire doors with interior hinges.
    Even if someone got in they wouldn't get very far without a work crew, sledge hammer and torch set and a lot of time. And we have cameras everywhere inside and out. Even if you get around the alarm and exterior cameras you arent getting into anything valuable or dangerous.

    And yeah I know "a gun room, what do you do that needs a gun room?"
    Nothing, we all like shooting, there's a range nearby and my boss is a gun collector with ATF stamps for all kinds of stuff he wants to keep highly secured and not all of it at his house.

    Just saying there's ways to keep your business secure if you want to, I dunno if it's being cheap or preferring to rely on the cost of insurance instead of the cost of prevention but it's 100% operator error. It should take more than a crowbar and 10 minutes to be cleaned out and if it doesn't you've made it too easy.
     
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