Any thoughts on why they bagged my toned nickels?

I am definitely not a toning expert at all. I recently bought an deal of mint sets that were without their original packaging. I picked out the nicely toned coins and sent them to NGC. I sent in 28 coins total from this lot. It included 6 nickels very similar to the one posted except some may have been toned on both sides. The silver coins graded very high. No coin less then 65 and 3 star's including an 1952 S half that 66 stared and an 1952 S Dime that 67 stared. I am positive that these coins all came from the same place and all experienced the same conditions so why do they bag the nickels as AT and grade the rest?? I thought that this green color was a very hard color to get AT'ing?

 

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When in doubt..........


body bag it!


NGC is not good with toning... I know a dealer who will (no longer) send toned coins to NGC, they don't like them.

 

If you think it's worth the expense and you like slabbed coins, just either resend to them or send to PCGS or one of the by now millions of TPGS's. Slight exageration but there are a lot of them. Someone I know sent a coin to PCGS and it came back as a fake. He resent to NGC and it came back slabbed and graded. Also, i've heard reverse types of stories.
Who knows?

 

They look NT to me - like a long term storage tone. Said it before, say it again - grading and opinions are subjective and sometimes meaningless since it really only is the eye of the beholder and the person with the wallet that makes determination in the end.

That said, if I collected Jeffs, I would buy it raw and keep it in a capsule.

 

The nickel looks NT to me. Keep in mind, that while you think or know the nickels came from the same source as the other coins which graded, the graders must grade in a vacuum without that knowledge - they must evaluate the coins independently.

 

Green is no harder than any other coin to AT. Don't let forum rumors cloud your judgment.

That said, the reason why these coins bagged and the others didn't is because grading is subjective and they didn't have the same information as you did when making the judgment (all they had were the coins).

Personally, the coins look NT to me, and if you believe in them, then send them in again until NGC gets it right.

 

the coin does look like NT. i know i have a few late 50's early 60's proof nickels that have similar toning. i would submit it to PCGS.

 

they body bag because they don't understand.

 

The tpg's have been very tough on toned coins lately, imo because the coin doctors have become so good. Perfectly NT coins have been rejected, sometimes more than once, (based on my forum browsing). I have a question: do all the coins in a given submission go through the process one after the other, or are they randomly mixed in with coins from other submissions? If a string of colorful coins from a single submission was to file through the grading room, wouldn't the chances increase that some of them would be rejected as AT because somewhere in the back of the graders' brains there is a nagging doubt operating at an unconscious level? (the "too many clowns in the Volkswagen" hypothesis, posited by SaintGuru)

 

Each group of coins submitted on an invoice is kept segregated from other coins/invoices. A large number of colorful coins could certainly arouse suspicion, but in the case of coins from a mint set, I wouldn't think that would be the case.

 

I just finished reading a book called coin chemistry by weimar w. white. I dont understand corrision is corrision artifical or your just speeding up the process, and not properly stored the colorers that atracted you will change.

 

The TPGs being hard on toning because of AT coins has ripple effects. For instance, someone with a slabbed coin that they think is a candidate for a crossover or upgrade, might normally crack it out and submit it raw, but if the coin is toned, the submitter runs the risk that it might get bagged. I understand this risk has always been there but at least one dealer told me that it is amplified now.

By the way, Dutchman, I like the Jefferson. There are those around here with a lot better idea of NT v. AT, but from the photo it does not look AT to me. Like your website.:thumb:

 

Doug, your assumption is correct, at least with respect to my experiences as a grader at NGC from 1991-1998. I doubt things have changes there or are different at PCGS, but I don't know that for a fact.

 

Some more good information. It seems to me that the process is designed to be more efficient, yet accuracy can suffer inadvertantly. I sure would not think that a grading company would purposefully design their product flow to impede accuracy.

In regard to why they bagged the toned nickles, perhaps some ngc researcher discovered a way to tone coins that matched the submitted coins, and henceforth all coins are guilty unless proven innocent. I would also guess that with the toned coin market the tpgs would want to to research the hows and whys as much as they could.

Another possibility since so many people are color blind, in the old fashioned sense, not the political statement sense, maybe the graders were so afflicted?

Just some thoughts from a novice, about 6 months into the hobby.

 

I am unaware of anyone at NGC doing research on artificial toning. And the coins didn't body-bag because of a color-blind grader. It takes more than one opinion (except perhaps in the case of a finalizer) to result in a body-bag, and NGC doesn't have any new finalizers. Your speculation strikes me as irresponsible.

 

This nickle does not look right to me.

This nickle does not look right to me.
The magenta and/or purple looks out of place to be natural.
It's as if this coin toned laterally from north east to south west.
It could be natural but the more I look the less I like it for natural toning.

 

At NGC, at least, there were usually 3 opinions, total, not 4. I don't know the particulars there or at PCGS currently, however. And I wonder if some lower value coins might garner fewer than 3 or 4 opinions.

 

I thought that starting Sept 1st NGC would "detail" grade all coins and not body bag them unless they were fake or have PVC problems ? Did these coins get body bagged or detail graded. Were they submitted after Sept 1st ??