What grade would you give these coins?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by zaneman, Sep 11, 2005.

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  1. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    Here is a 1950 and a 1951 proof washington quarters.


    They are Both deep cameos as far as I can tell, but I am unsure of the grade.

    Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
     

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    zaneman, Sep 11, 2005
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  3. knowtracks

    knowtracks Senior Member

    From the pic's I'd say Cam 65 at least maybe higher in hand
     
    knowtracks, Sep 11, 2005
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  4. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Look CAMEO to me...maybe in person they would be DCAMEO....
    I'm not good on PF but here it goes...

    1950-PF65CAMEO
    1951-PF64CAMEO

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Sep 11, 2005
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  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Would not be surprised if they both got a PF67 DCAM ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 12, 2005
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  6. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    That would be a blessing if they both rated at 67.
     
    zaneman, Sep 12, 2005
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  7. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Hey GDJMSP....is it because of the age of the coins??...the 1951 has some places on it where the CAMEO is "lost"...the eagles wings and some of the letters...I would think that it would take it from DCAMEO....also the 1950 the CAMOE is not real good on the head....
    That is why I took it down but as I said...I'm not good at grading PFs...so any info you can share on these woule much liked ;)

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Sep 12, 2005
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  8. huntsman53

    huntsman53 Supporter**


    Speedy,

    I think that it is more of a lighting or reflection problem that makes the coins appear as if some of the Cameo is lost or not real good! Although there appears to be some light hazing in the fields (if it is not a lighting or reflection problem), I agree with GDJMSP on the grades!


    Frank
     
    huntsman53, Sep 12, 2005
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  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well Speedy, I agree with Frank - I think what you are referring to as a lack of cameo is due to the lighting - not the coin. The cameo effect is created by the texture or frost of the devices and it appears to me it is all there - even if the pic makes it look like it isn't.

    And yes, the age does have something to do with it. But to be more accurate, it's the dates not the age. Now to some that may not make a lot of sense; but it does if you are familiar with the quality of the Proof coins of the time. Always remember that each date and mint are to be graded differently according to the average quality for that date and mint. And for 1950 & '51 - those coins are about as good as cameo gets ;)

    The quality of the strike also appears to be right up there. I've seen many 66's that looked far worse. Luster appears to be full and eye appeal - well let's just say that that golden tone around the edges just sets those coins off !! I debated with myself for a few seconds about giving them a 68 :eek:
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 12, 2005
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  10. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Right...and so where it is hard to get coins from the 50's with CAMEO they would get push-up in the grade...
    So let me ask this question...where I'm buying PF Franklins and I'm down to the one that are in the 50's...since the coins are heavier than quarters, etc, there might be a mark or two more where on a dime in the same grade there wouldn't be any...but the dime and the half...would both be the same grade even though the marks would be more or less......right?

    I have been working on grading but I have been working on the types I'm collecting right now and I'm not working as hard on types like this that I'm not collecting...guess I'd better get busy ;) ;)

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Sep 12, 2005
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  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Kinda sorta, but not exactly the way I'd phrase it. It's not that they get a push up in grade - it's that the coin meets the criteria for that grade in that date.

    Proof coins from the '50s can't be judged the same way that Proof coins from the '80s or '90s are judged. In later years - deep cameo is the standard to be expected. But in the '50s - it was not very common. So there are allowances made for the coins from the '50s - the cameo does not have to be as perfect as for coins in later years.


    You've got the idea ;) But to get good at it - just takes more experience to judge the severity of those marks. And don't forget - the location of the marks is very important and it varies from denomination to denomination.


    Don't rush it - take your time, there's a lot to learn. Grading isn't something you just pick up - it takes time. And above all, looking at lots and lots and lots - and then lots more coins. You've come a long way in the last 5 years. I only wish I knew at your age what you know ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 12, 2005
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  12. The_Cave_Troll

    The_Cave_Troll The Coin Troll

    ok... they look like they are in NGC slabs, so what are the real grades?
     
    The_Cave_Troll, Sep 13, 2005
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  13. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    They are actually in pci slabs, and more than likely overgraded. They are graded at proof-68 deep cameos, but I think they are actually at least 66 deep cameos, hopefully 67's. I bought them for about 250 each. I think I got a good deal.
     
    zaneman, Sep 13, 2005
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    :eek: :eek: Understatement of the year award !!


    This post serves as an excellent example of something I have long said - that being that gems can be found in any slab - even those of the third tier grading companies.

    But don't read something into that statement that isn't there. It doesn't mean you can find gems every day of the week. But if you study your coins and learn to know what you are looking at - it can be done. And at bargain prices ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 13, 2005
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  15. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator


    I looked at the realized prices for coins at heritage auction, and a 1950 deep cameo proof 65 went for nearly 4 grand, and then hopefully buy a nice 1909 s-vdb to complete my lincoln cents. As far as the 51's, I couldn't even find any deep cameos, but I think I may make a few bucks from these coins after I get them cross graded. I'm debating whether or not to send them in their pci holders though, as I'm afraid there will be an established bias. I do think I will go for the one day service though, in hopes of a less conservative grade. Any advice on regrades?
     
    zaneman, Sep 13, 2005
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  16. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Nice find!!!

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Sep 13, 2005
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's up to you on the crossovers - but if it were me - I would'nt risk crackin those puppies out for nothin !! :eek:
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 13, 2005
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  18. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    Are you saying that you wouldn't let someone else cross grade them, or that it may not be a good idea to crack them out myself? I don't know anything about cracking them out, so I don't know if it can be done safely or not. : ) Any value would be greatly appreciated and considered. Thanks.
     
    zaneman, Sep 13, 2005
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm saying that I would not risk trying to break the PCI slab open to remove the coin for fear of damaging the coin. I mean think about it - you have 2 coins there, each potentially worth $1000 ( conservative ). One small slip, one small piece of flying plastic - they turn into quarters you can spend.

    Unh uh - not me.

    Strictly my opinion - I think the bias theory is a bunch of horse puckey to begin with. They could care less who graded that coin before it gets to them. All they care about is that it will now be in their slab.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 13, 2005
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  20. The_Cave_Troll

    The_Cave_Troll The Coin Troll

    These coins are very grade sensitive (including the DCam adjective), so crack them out and have one of the big guys send them in for you. The big dealers may or may not get better grading than Joe Schmo, but if there is any way to get a better grade it is worth trying. Absolutuly break them out of the PCI slabs since those would prevent the graders from evaluating the edge of the coin (Resulting in a lower grade). I don't know exactly what the process is for getting one of the bigger firms to submit the coins for you, but it is well worth the emails required to find out.

    Good luck!!
     
    The_Cave_Troll, Sep 13, 2005
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  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Oh c'mon now CT - NGC and PCGS both will remove the coins from the PCI slab before they grade them.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 13, 2005
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