Somehow I missed this before (late-August was quite busy for me). There's a new hoard of fakes on the market of common late Roman bronze. Examples are found for Probus, Carus, Constantine, Constantine II, and Constans so far. They were discovered as fakes by astute dealers who noticed the ubiquitous die matches, the uniform repatination, and the identical flan-shapes. As of yet, I see no easy way to distinguish these from genuine coins, given a single example. The dies were likely transfer directly from high-grade, official coins, so the style is perfect. However, there are a number of mules (probably to sell these as "not in RIC" varieties), including mixed mints (ie, Siscia style portrait with Rome mintmarks) and mixed legends (ie, IMP...CAES on the obv, VIRTVTI AVG on the reverse). Thankfully, all of the specimens have come on the market since late summer, so anything before that should be fine. In addition, this hoard is well documented: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/fakes2009.htm And the two threads where these were discovered: http://ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=2671 http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=55135.0 Of course, there's no need to panic. Just remain cautious and use your KNOWLEDGE to catch these counterfeits!
Man, and I was just getting good with the obvious fakes too. Thanks for the heads up though. stainless
Here's the response on Forvm, just what I thought too. Be on the look out for sharper-than normal edges, more flatness than one would expect, and a vague resemblance to pressed fakes.
Don't worry too much. LRB's are still pretty safe to buy, as these counterfeits are by no means ubiquitous.
I'm honestly surprised that they bothered counterfeiting such coins. It hardly seems like it would be that profitable.
Yes, it would be costly to create the dies and perfect the technique. But after the initial output, each subsequent coin would cost MUCH less to make. If it costs $100 in time and equipment to make the first coin, but only $2 to make the next 100, it can still be rather profitable!
From what I have read, it looks as if most of the coins are all together, so they shouldn't hit the market.Some individual ones being sold on ebay I have seen that are deemed part of this hoard are really crappy looking. IMO, they didn't to a good job with the edges of some of these fakes. Others are really good and would fool me, but I am not interested in them, so I wouldn't buy them anyways, even at $7 a coin, but, like I said, they would fool me, until I learn how to match dies, which is what I am doing right now. Others, the Patina is really either awful or just unfavorable. I understand you can't deem them as fake because of repatination, but why would you buy any coin - real or fake - with repatination? These will fool most people, if they are to be sold individualy, but now that we have examples and know the dies, this isn't anything to worry about much. We already knew the counterfeiters were getting better, but they still have ways to go, IMO. Of course, I have been fooled many times, but, I'll get better...eventually stainless
I have had the 'honor' of handling fakes from this group on two occasions. Most recently, at the coin show in Richmond VA, a friend/dealer had a set (all that were in the pictures) which I could examine at length. I considered the group obviously fake but could well have been fooled by individuals mixed in with other coins. 'Repatination' is a strong word for the surfaces. They were toned rather like you get with Deller's Darkener and heat. Many genuine victims of zapping (electronic cleaning) have a similar look and many dedicated collectors of uncleaned coins are proud of their zapping skills so there is no question that these will be accepted in appearance by many people. I have coins in my collection with similar treatment and am happy to have them. If you collect something a bit on the rare side, you have to decide how picky to be about such matters. If five examples of a rare coin are known and three of them have been poorly cleaned, how many are you willing to consider? Style is another matter. The coins do not all look correct compared to the mints indicated on their reverses. Many LRC's look strange but Alexandria mint tends to look strange in a different way than Siscia. Specialists take note when they see a believable Siscia obverse paired with an Alexandria mintmark. The coins will fool beginners and non specialists up to and including my level of expertise if we are not taking time to look carefully. I still recommend buying from reputable dealers. That is why the guys that showed me the coins had them. Some dealers have quite a collection of 'Black Museum' items which figure in their personal education and maintaining their status as 'reputable'.
Maybe their orginal intent was to introduce them into uncleaned lots of mostly cull, to help move them
I think they are better than that. They may be introduced into lots as upgrades but probably not 'mostly culls'. What I have not yet seen is coins of this bunch with dirt added to make them fit into such a lot. Both sets I saw were clean and clear with thin retoning worn away on higher spots. Subsequent owners could add dirt as desired. There is quite a trade in silver fakes that are not deceptive in mint state gaining a better look by being mistreated, toned etc. Many people are wary of a mint state rarity but easily fooled by a damaged, worn and corroded one. These LRB's are not worth much if genuine so they may not get quite the attention in this way as have the Pertinax or Caligula fakes.
