What is first known account of money ....

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Kent, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. Kent

    Kent Junior Member

    What is the earliest account of money being used I know in early Biblical times PM's were used as payments, but when was currency first used coin or paper?
     
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  3. andrew289

    andrew289 Senior Analyst

  4. Kent, I'm pretty sure the first coins were from Greece, or at least an island that is now part of Greece. Miletos maybe? I think about 600 BC...I may be off...Paper money (and paper itself) dates from China. Scottishmoney posted an example from the 1300s recently, but he also stated that there are some known from the 900s AD. I think, unless it has been lost to history, that we can say with certainty that that paper is the oldest, or otherwise first...with the coins, Just my gut feeling, it is only the oldest KNOWN coin so far, and there is a lot of history that has been lost.

    I suppose it may be possible that there was an equivalent to paper money earlier...In the GrecoRoman time (when Greece and Rome were the world powers) but not made of paper as we know it, but of parchment like was used for scrolls...However no mention of it was made in contemporary times...but that doesn't mean it didn't exist!

    One of my hobbies in life is the study of ancient history...it is what led me to coin and currency collecting...pieces of history I can hold in my hands!
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I once asked the following trivia question right here on Coin Talk -

    In what country & when did the first currency originate ? ( For the purposes of this question I will define currency as a flexible or foldable object with a monetary value written or printed upon it. )

    The answer is: 118 BC: Leather money was used in China in the form of one-foot-square pieces of white deerskin with colorful borders. This could be considered the first documented type of banknote. The value of each of these banknotes was 40,000 cash.


    Now that said, the Chinese had coins long before that. Some scholars will say as far back as 1500 BC. While in the western world, the Lydians are consider the be the first to have coins from around 700 BC.
     
  6. Firmso

    Firmso Coin Dawg

    Stone



    http://www.janeresture.com/fedmic/yap.htm
     

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  7. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    These are arguably some of the first forms of money(not coins):

    [​IMG]

    They are from what is now Ukraine, were issued in Olbia which was a Greek colony just northwest of what is now the Crimean Peninsula. They are from approximately 700-650 BC. There were at the approximate time coins issued in Lydia(now Turkey) that were made about the 650 BC era.

    This coin from Miletos in Ionia is from approximately 600 BC:

    [​IMG]

    The fun thing about these two pieces, they are common and inexpensive, nice examples can be had for under $50.
     
  8. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    I disagree with the statement that the Chinese had the earliest forms of currency. We measure the development of coinage in the west from the first coins, in Ionia. But in China, we start with cowry shells and anything of the type.
     
  9. hontonai

    hontonai Registered Contrarian

    So what are you aware of that pre-dates the Chinese leather money GDJMSP wrote about?
     
  10. GoldCoinLover

    GoldCoinLover Senior Member

    The first coins were made in Lydia, and were made from electrum (a naturally occuring mixture of gold and silver)
     
  11. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye


    The Chinese were using bronze "bridge money" "pants money" "knife money" and "ant nose money" before the advent of coinage in Lydia, and well after cowrey shells.
     
  12. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    I believe it important to discern the differences betwixt money and coins, coins are money, but not all money is coins. In most collecting circles coins are confined to small circular objects, or even some odd shapes like rectangles, heptagons etc. Money can be spearpoints, little dolphin amulets like above, or even monstrous plate money:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Currency does not need to be paper. It can be coins or shells or spears, for that matter. In this instance, I'm talking about something that can be called "primitive money."

    I'm well aware. And the Greeks were using particular weights of precious metals. What I'm saying is that, in the West, the development of ANY form of currency is taught as beginning with coins in Lydia. In the East, it starts logically with "primitive money."
     
  14. hontonai

    hontonai Registered Contrarian

    Don't forget guitars and motorcycles, as in Somalian NCLT.
     
  15. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye


    Hmm, I believe that money in Eurasia began with amulets etc in bronze that were traded as a form of money - the Lydia assertion is a bit dated considering more recent research from archeological finds. Lydia has claim to the first "coins" but not money.
     
  16. Kent

    Kent Junior Member

    Now see I could have searched this on GOOGLE, but there is no way I could have found out this much with out spending a day weeding through all the other stuff I just wanted the meat and I knew that I would get that here.
    Thanks Kent
     
  17. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    As I said in my first post -

    - I specifically said coins. And they had them 800 years before the Lydians had coins.

    Now you can go look it up for yourself, that's how I found out. Or, you can just take my word for it. But in the end, I really don't care what anybody believes for regardless of how much proof is presented - they believe what they want to believe anyway. So it aint worth my effort to do more than what I have done.
     
  19. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    With all the research I've done over the years, I believe BARTER AND TRADE were the first forms of currency beginning in Ancient China. First were precious metals traded by weight, precious stones valued by size, things of beauty and constant shape like cowrie shells, implements and tools followed by land, animals and food. The necessity of commerce among the poor created the need for lesser valued coinage as bronze and brass.

    Ask a hundred historians and you get about 25 solid opinions, "Coins appeared at about the same time period in four different places (China, Greece, India and Lydia)."

    Lydia did not invent coins. The early Phoenicians were great seafaring traders. Sailing into strange ports they discovered new types of cloth, unique foods and spices, cheap tools and weapos as well as exotic jewelry.

    They plied their wares to merchants in countries where gold flowed abundantly. As most of their products were sold to Lydian businesses. These Phoenicians valued the use of time. They became impatient with the businessmen of Lydia taking so much time to melt gold, weigh it, and having to wait until the gold cooled enough to handle it. The seafaing traders asked the merchants to prepare the gold in advance of their next visit. The Lydians accomodated their suppliers' wishes and set aside globules, beads and other small-sized amounts of gold.


    The quest for exact firsts in coin production continues to today and will stretch into many tomorrows even though it is of no importance.

    My opinion...

    Clinker
     
  20. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    Unfortunately the ancient Lydians and Chinese and Indians are not channeling their communication to us through telekinesis or any other method, and this debate will continue.
     
  21. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    The 1st coins were produced by the Welsh then we hid them :whistle:
     
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