Advice for Coin Show

I am attending a coin show tomorrow with about 40 tables and I'm looking forward to making a good amount of purchases. This is just my second coin show and I have a question about what is expected in the way of haggling over the price of a coin. At the last coin show, I overheard others wheeling and dealing, but I just paid whatever price was being asked. Should I try to haggle over price at the show tomorrow?

I have made myself aware of the different grades of coins, but I would not be able to differentiate among the grades of mint state coins, I can't tell the difference from an MS63 and an MS65, but I know the difference in price between the grades could be quite significant.

I am also not real clear on what I should use to determine the fair price once I agree on the grade of the coin. I've been reading the prices shown in the Red Book, "Coin Values" magazine and "Coins" magazine. However, all three of these publication vary a great deal in the prices. I've been focusing on learning the prices of Franklin half dollars.

I've done some reading online and came across an article that says one should not pay the asking price, but try for maybe 10% to 20% above the Grey Sheet. I do not have a copy of the Grey Sheet and I am not confident enough in my knowledge to try to haggle with someone who has made this his or her profession.

Any advice you care to offer is welcome. I thought that what I'd do is stick with slab coins that have been graded by PCGS or NGC for coins that to me are big purchases, and just not worry too much about the prices I pay for everything else.

 

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Buy a couple books and LOOK at every slab you can until you can tell the difference between an MS-63 and an MS-65. When you have an idea what the difference is, then you can buy a coin.

As for pricing, the best place I can send you is to Heritage. It is free to join, a great place to buy and learn (both pricing and grading)

 

1. Do not take a Red Book with you. It marks you as an amateur and you'll get a lot of high prices with little ability to haggle.
2. If you like a decent reference to take along, yes the Red Book is a good idea of what you really should never pay for a coin. Copy or print out the pages of the coins from that book you are most interested in and take that with. NEVER pay more than about 20% less than the Red Book prices.
3. Remember a coin show is a flea market for coins. Every dealer I know raises the prices of all their coins due to this factor. This means they expect customers to haggle them down. Some raise thier prices as much as 25% over what they expect.
4. Many dealers will say things like "Ignor the prices shown, my son did that" or "Those prices shown are from another show. My prices are much less." or "I didn't put any prices on my items since I have to look them up all the time and prices change so much" or many other silly stuff.
5. Most dealers look up on the grey sheet what coins are supposed to be selling for and then look you over to see what you might really pay.
6. Never purchase coins from the first dealer no matter what he says. Walk around checking the place out first. YES, you might miss out on something but then too, you might find something you like better later.
7. Try not to take a check book or credit card with you. If a dealer says you can pay with one of those and you do, make REALLY sure no one is standing behind you looking over your shoulder at your person information.
8. Do not take a back pack with you. They have a tendency to hit people as you walk though congested aisles. Also, a great place to plant a device to follow you later.
9. Pending on where your at, security has become a big thing. At all the coin shows I go to there are numerous security guards and cameras. If you have a wallet full of cash, make sure it's in your front pocket.
10. Do not pull out large quantities of cash to purchase something. Keep cash in several places on you.
11. If you find someone near you all the time, go to the washroom and see if they attempt to follow you there.
12. Any coins you purchase make sure you have a place for them that is not easily accessable to others.
13. If at all possilbe, go with someone.
14. When leaving any coin show, make sure your not followed. If you feel someone is following you, pull into a gas station, restaurant, police station to see what they do next.
15. Back to coins. Make sure you do not get caught up in buying frenzy and purchase something you don't need, want and will be sorry for later. Many people buy something they think at the time is something they just must have.

Have fun and let us all know how it all worked out.

 

Great info Just Carl! Also rlm has a great point. Not sure if there is anything else to say. Most dealers are pretty friendly so just chat it up and sometimes they will bring out stuff that isnt on display if you are looking for something specific.

 

That is some very good advise. I like to wear my bib-overalls to coin shows. Has a very nice chest pocket. If your from the city, you probably don't have a pair. Most country folks do, you cannot pick that pocket...

 

Unless it's a particularly hard to find coin or has exceptional eye appeal, I've found most dealers around here willing to sell their coins (even slabbed coins) anywhere from Greysheet Bid to maybe 10% or so over Greysheet Ask. Sure there are some that charge the prices found in the magazines or the PCGS Guide prices too, but those dealers seem to be much more rare in this economy. And regardless of the pricing, I have very very very rarely paid a coin's sticker price. If they are unmarked, I just ask a dealer for his best price and if I like it I usually just pay it. If it's a little too high for me I'll counter, but if it's crazy money I'll walk away.

If you're unsure of a price on a coin, ask the dealer to see his Greysheet, I've never been turned down by any dealer when I've asked. Anyone can also download and print a copy of the Greysheet from their website for a few bucks. If the price being asked is above the ask price, politely ask the dealer about the price and why it's that much above ask. Remember, the Greysheet isn't 100% accurate and the dealer may use that as the reason for their higher price, but remember they may or may not be telling the truth. I know of several coins that have real market prices of 3-4x Greysheet prices (and I love finding them at shows priced by dealers who rely on the Greysheet!!!!).

Bottom line is to do a little research on pricing and have some notes with you, whether that be some printouts, copy of the Greysheet or whatever. And unless it's a super rare coin that you won't see again for 10-20 years, don't be pressured by anyone into buying a bad coin or an overpriced average coin. Doing your homework and being a patient buyer will pay off in the long run. Most importantly, have fun and remember to post pics of what you buy!!!!!!!!

 

Since you're asking us for advice, this is what I'll say from my experience in the past from coin shows..

Some of these points may have already been touched on so here goes:

-Do your homework before attending. So tonight, find out the true value of the coins you want from sites like heritage.com and ebay. See what the open market is paying for those coins and then validate them with current price guide prices preferably from the grey sheets.

-Be very careful of what you buy at the show. Make SURE you need it and don't just impulse buy(That is, if you didn't pre-determine what coins you were going to look out for the day or night before).

-NEGOTIATE. ALWAYS. Don't just buy at the dealers price. Play hardball sometimes. If you really want something and it's pricey, respectfully do some price banter. He says $300, you say $250. Meet half way with a smile (Always know that you're paying within grey sheet ask/bid or below)

-95%+ of the dealers at shows are there to make a profit. Keep that in mind. Unless you are the superman of negotiations, don't expect to pay a low price below grey sheet bid for a nice certified pcgs or ngc coin. You may see a coin that is going for grey sheet ask or above that is just oozing with eye appeal and you were looking for it or it was a key date. That's a good coin to own in my opinion because a)it will be easily sellable in the future and b) it will look nice in your inventory.

-Regarding raw coins.. They're plenty of THOSE at shows.. Keep a close eye on VERY SHINY raw coins. They are probably cleaned. Stay away from that stuff. Raw coins in my opinion are okay but you have to be very careful on what you're buying. If it's $5 then big deal but if it's $500 or $5000, that's another story; so be careful.

-I'd bring a copy of the grey sheet monthly and weekly with you to always make sure you're buying within line of the grey sheet bid/ask. That should be your barometer.

-Go there to learn, ask dealers questions.. See if they got anything recently in that they'd like to sell. Tell some dealers where you're at (obv. the ones you're not buying from) at this stage of the game.. If you're a novice, don't show it for that's the easiest way to get taken advantage of.

-Just because the coin is slabbed and selling at grey sheet ask doesn't mean it's a good deal. The dealer usually won't just sell a nice coin for straight up ask so they may just be wanting to get rid of their ugly duckling!

-Finally, build rapport with the dealers you like. It's always good for the future!

And I second what Mike says, post pics if you get anything!
Tomorrow, i'll be hitting up a show in Van Nuys too!

-BNB
PS: All these tips I learned in one month by being here at Cointalk. This forum has a powerful way of osmosis. Thanks all.

 

Ditto to all that. And don't use any of the price guides you mentioned. Especially not Coinvalues. I like their articles, but their prices listed are the highest I've even seen printed.

 

"Any advice you care to offer is welcome. "

famous last words....

Okeh here goes, the night before you go to the coin show, practice some facial expressions in the mirror, sadness, shock, disgust, now when you go to the show, and you ask the dealer how much for that coin you have been wanting, and he gives you a price, give him your shocked look and tell him you want to look around at some of the other dealers first, then if he bends a little bit give him the sad look, and make a counter offer, usually it is best to offer about a tenth of his first offer, then it might be a race to see who uses the disgust expression.

Another fine piece of advice is to know that the lighting in coin shows leaves much to be desired, for that reason the savvy collectors wear mining helmets with a built in light on the crown, show up with one of those and the dealers will know that you are a man who knows coins.

Third bring a small child with you, most dealers have a soft spot for young collectors, tell him (or her) what coins you want and then give them a little money to buy it, you will be picking up that 77 indian head cent for ten dollars give the kid a buck for helping out, no sense being tight with the hired help.

Actually you might not want to follow this advice, it might not be conducive to future relations with dealers who generally after they get to know you will be more than willing to help you out.

 

At the show I went to last weekend, I bought some MS Franklin halves myself for my album. I looked at what everybody had there. Sometimes I bought immediately if they were really nice.

FBL designation is tossed around pretty loosely with loose MS Franklins. Take that into consideration. You can argue that they're not. I've learned to negotiate a little. If they want 75, I'll ask if they would take 50 for example.
Most of the time, they will hum and haw over it. Then get their grey sheet out and say they can go 'x' which is 'x' amount over bid. Then I decide if I'm willing to pay that. Sometimes I flat out ask what their bottom dollar is on something. Sometimes you'll have to walk away.

Some things, I go by how they've sold on ebay. At the same show last weekend, I also purchased a MS66 38-D/S buffalo nickel that was sweet. I really wanted it but did not want to pay the sticker price. The dealer knocked off $60 in a hurry and it got down to what they've been consistantly selling for on Ebay. I thought that was fair so I bought it. The deal wasn't a 'steal', but I didn't care. I was willing to pay for it what he wanted because I liked it so much. That's all that matters. Truth be told, I would have paid more to get it. So I won't complain. The dealer didn't know that. Try to suppress your excitement. Not easy for me to do sometimes!

There were some insane sticker prices. Some were $150 too high. I think it's just a test. If somebody starts whipping cash out before they've spoken a word, the dealer will gladly take the money. Most people will deal.

The key is to know the coins and the prices of what you are specifically looking for. If you wander off from your list and make an impulse purchase, chances are you won't know what a good price range is for that issue. Always try to study what you're looking for a little before you go. Write down prices from ended ebay auctions and online price guides. That will get you in the ballpark.

There is no price that is set in stone on any coin. People like you and me buying coins at shows are what set the prices. Not the price guides.
It always comes down to how bad do you want it. Eye appeal is a big factor. Will you regret leaving it there and going home without it? Don't focus so much on trying to get everything at a steal of a price. Don't nickel and dime over something. You should have an idea what's fair going in. You will find some prices are really jacked up high. Some will be very obvious.

Most dealers were easy to deal with. One guy knocked off $5 as I was handing him the cash. I didn't even ask for it.

 

Thank you all for the replies. I've read and will read again what you've written. I downloaded the Grey Sheet and will carry it with me, and I will make certain to negotiate to get the best deal.

I will also pay attention to coins that appear to have been cleaned and stay away from them. That was good to know as I assumed that would not be an issue when buying from a dealer.

I'm looking forward to the show and have been preparing my want list all week. Although, I was born in the morning, it wasn't yesterday morning. There's no doubt that I'm a novice coin buyer, but I feel comfortable that I have done a little homework and I've got access to some good information.

This will be fun. I am not the greatest at photographing coins, but I will post pictures of my purchases.

Thanks again. I am really blown away by this site and am grateful for your kind help.

 

I'm assuming you're going to the monthly K.C. show? Let us/me know if its a good one, because I may go to it some time.

 

It's tough to add to the great advice above. The only thing I'll add is that you should not go there with the mindset that you MUST buy coins. You are going there to look for certain coins at certain grades at certain prices. If you don't find what you are looking for, there is no obligation to buy.

 

Yes, I am going to the ARC show tomorrow morning. I will definitely let you know how it goes.

 

As a dealer, I strongly urge you to just pay whatever the dealer asks.

As a collector, I begrudgingly admit that yes, you should haggle over the price. I haven't read all of the above posts, so I apologize if what I'm saying is repetitive. My tips:

- Don't make insulting offers. Know your stuff, and make a fair offer. Depending on the coin and the dealer, you can save 2-20%

- Don't knock the coin in an attempt to get a lower price. If you see something the dealer may not have seen, you may consider mentioning it, but again, don't be insulting. Making the dealer angry will not give you a lower price.

- Patiently wait while others are being helped. Don't interrupt a $5,000 transaction because you want to see a $50 coin right that second.

- Don't assume that the price guide you have, and that includes the grey sheet, bears any resemblance to the real market. Some coins are way overpriced, and some are way underpriced. Again, know your stuff.

- Feel free to walk away if you're not getting the price you want. Again, don't be rude, just say "I'll think about it", and move on. Keep in mind, though, that the dealer may not offer you the same price on a coin at a later time. You can say "I'd like to think about it for awhile. Will you offer me the same price later today?"

Good luck!

 

Thank you, it's good to get the dealer's perspective. I will be respectful and I realize that a few weeks study does not make me an expert coin buyer. This is something that I do because it brings me pleasure, it's not my job. Keeping that perspective, I am sure that I will enjoy the show.

 

I'm sure you will !

Originally, I went to coin shows to buy coins. Now, I have equal parts shopping, selling, and developing relationships. Above all this, I go to learn.

Look at lots and lots of coins... you'll learn to discern an MS63 from an MS65. Don't spend much money until you can do that consistently.

Very best wishes at the coin show ! :high5:

ps Borgovan's advice makes a lot of sense.

 

I agree..

And not only Borgovan's advice makes a lot of sense, but so does Illini420's, mine, and all the other's who posted on this thread

 

We only have one coin show a year in the area that I live in. I buy many more coins from ebay or local auctions. I love our coin show but am curious about the protocol of paying for the coins. Although I collect coins, I don't like carrying much money around with me. I complete most of my transactions on line or use debit or credit cards. The coin shows do not seem to like the debit or credit cards probably because they don't like paying the fee. They also don't like checks probably from the bad ones they've received in the past. That leaves me with bringing a lot of cash. How primitive I think as I then proceed to pay hundreds of dollars for coins, which I never put into circulation. It is probably the only time all year that I need to withdraw money from an ATM to pay for anything. My question, what do the dealers prefer to receive at coin shows? If it is cash, aren't you worried about security? I must say that many of the dealers now know me and will accept my checks. If I were them, I would prefer checks over carrying a boat load of cash. Of course, I guess they are carrying a lot of coins worth a boat load of cash anyway.

 

When asking for a lower price I just always hand the coin to the dealer and ask..."what's your price?" and at the same time be looking at other coins in his case. That way he doens't know if I'm really interested in it or not. Sometimes I'll even ask to see coins I'm not interested in, and totally different from what I am looking for so they are kindof off track!
If you walk up to a dealer and lets say that you know Jefferson Nickels like the back of your hand and can spot a FS easy, then ask to see some Morgan dollars, Washington Quarters, then as almost a side note, say something about how the Jefferson dime is sure pretty, and then start going through those.

NOW NOTE - this only works with some dealers - others perfer to work with people that have the knowledge and in those cases it is best to place your cards on the table as then you know that both sides will be playing fair. You know your stuff, and the KNOW that you do, and that you aren't going to pay one cent more than you feel it's worth.

Just play it by ear, and watch the dealers carefuly - if you are good on people skills then you can pick up pretty quickly who will be willing to work with you, and who are the duds.

Speedy