I like what I see... I'm no expert whatsoever... I think it may well be MS... but can't judge surfaces from the photos to offer any opinion as to grade. I don't see anything in the photos that would lead me to suspect that it's a fake. I'm still curious about the dark area that I noticed in the seller's photos... what does that look like in hand? Thanks.
The color of the coin is quite different from the seller's pictures. Now that you have it in hand, which color is more correct the warmer copper-gold color of your pics or the cooler green-gold look of the sellers? Are you able to post pics of the coin out of the holder (shows lots of glare and hot spots in this holder and the entire rim is not depicted in your pics) or are you waiting to get responses from the members here to see if its authentic before removing the coin from holder in case you want/need to return to the seller? Immediate observations on the reverse, there are some marks on the devices that I'm not crazy about: such as the last A in America, W and first leg of N in Twenty. Also that deep looking mark on the tail feathers (around 3 o'clock). It looks like there is a typical copper stain on the reverse around 6 o'clock? I didn't pick up on that spot in the listing pics. I'm also curious about that black mark in the right field of the obverse that was more black-ish looking in the seller's pic. How does it look in hand? Very interested in what the others have to say and teach us about this piece. Thanks for posting the pics. Attached is the seller's pic taken from your ebay link for comparison.
AU55 I'd say. Wear on the left knee, right leg, left hand, minor wear on the rock. On the rev, wear on the eagle's breast, the rays, slight wear on the left wing edge and several nasty rim dings. Now BNB, that is completely honest and unbiased opinion. I used to specialize in gold.
To answer your question, the dark area looked Much worse on the ebay seller's photos than it does in hand. All it looks like to me is a wear on the luster. Nothing noticeable at all unless examined under a microscope.
The color of the coin is quite different from the seller's pictures. Now that you have it in hand, which color is more correct the warmer copper-gold color of your pics or the cooler green-gold look of the sellers? A. Warmer copper gold cold color without a doubt. Are you able to post pics of the coin out of the holder (shows lots of glare and hot spots in this holder and the entire rim is not depicted in your pics) or are you waiting to get responses from the members here to see if its authentic before removing the coin from holder in case you want/need to return to the seller? A. Yeah, why not, I'll pop it out. Immediate observations on the reverse, there are some marks on the devices that I'm not crazy about: such as the last A in America, W and first leg of N in Twenty. Also that deep looking mark on the tail feathers (around 3 o'clock). It looks like there is a typical copper stain on the reverse around 6 o'clock? I didn't pick up on that spot in the listing pics. I'm also curious about that black mark in the right field of the obverse that was more black-ish looking in the seller's pic. How does it look in hand? A. Not very noticeable, or , looks nothing like a "black mark" in hand. Very interested in what the others have to say and teach us about this piece. Thanks for posting the pics. Attached is the seller's pic taken from your ebay link for comparison.[/QUOTE]
I agree with Doug's assessment of AU55 details (possibly altered surfaces? might be the pic tho) and I also think that the coin is genuine. The little dent on the back in the eagles tail looked a little suspect but I this it looks like a contact mark. I would also chalk the marks that krispy pointed out as contact marks.
Looks like a solid AU $20 Saint to me. Probably AU55 or AU58, based on what I've seen that gets certified. I would lean towards AU58 based on the reverse though as those eagle breast feathers are just about all there and I've seen plenty of them get quite worn and still be AU55. And I'm not seeing the nasty rim dings that Doug pointed out. Sure there are some hits/marks on the rims and maybe one or two that are more substantial than the others, but I don't see anything out of the ordinary for an AU $20 piece and I've seen much worse rims on certified coins, even "uncirculated" examples.
1908-d No Motto Purchased off ebay for $1259 OBVERSE 1908-d No Motto Purchased off ebay for $1259 REVERSE
I really noticed that as well. No way to really know. Just a guess. Anybody who's read (or at least looked at the pictures) in Bill Fivaz's book would see that and suspect the 'possibility' of a repeating depression. It looks very similar to what to look out for. Not to say a contact mark couldn't do that. The question is if the luster carries on through it. Some of the lettering on the back has some indentions. It looks like the first T in Twenty has a sunken area across the top. I'm not going to judge it's authenticity. Just mentioning a couple areas of concern that I saw. BTW, in response to your last thread about what the dealer told you..... what do you expect the seller to tell you? That it's no good and probably won't grade? His opinion matters the least. If he could have sent it in and got it slabbed for $10 and made a couple hundred more on it, then why wasn't it done? According to NGC's price guide, you paid less than VG price for what some here are calling an AU-55. It doesn't compute. But, maybe you got a great deal. I recommend you send it in and see what they say. I'd send it in today. How does the reeded edge look? Have you measured it and weighed it? I'd just like to know out of curiousity. Since it's not slabbed you may as well check it out.
Send it in today? I can't. I have to sign up with PCGS first right? You can't just send these things in... At least from what I've learned..
It computes to me.. The NGC price guide probably isn't the best reference for a common date AU gold coin. I think an AU $20 common date is probably worth around $1300-$1350 or so right now (whether it is in a slab or not), while a very low grade/problem coin is maybe $100-$200 less. Plus, it costs a lot more than $10 to get a coin slabbed. If you send this coin to PCGS, you'll pay a $30 grading fee + $8 handling fee + about $20 return shipping = $58. Plus you have to spend some money shipping the coin to PCGS and you need to be a collector's club member in the first place. Of course it is a little cheaper when you send in more coins to defray the shipping costs, but the $70 or so that you'd need to spend to get this single coin graded substantially reduces the financial benefit of certification (assuming you already know the coin is genuine).
You can also submit to PCGS through an authorized dealer BnB, here is a list of the ones in your area. http://www.pcgs.com/Dealers/Default.aspx?cy=Santa Monica&s=CA They might also be able to give you an assessment of the coin if you want another one before sending it in. If the coin slabs I think you did well, of coarse you don't have to get it slabbed either. I think slabbing does increase the value though. PS I agree it looks like a nice AU to me.
It wouldn't cost that much to a dealer. I didn't think NGC's prices were that high. Maybe they are higher for gold. If you're an ANA member, you can submit directly to NGC.
Thanks for the additional photos in post 11, now I can see the rub in the fields which accounts for the dark spot in the seller's photos.... an artifact as I thought. It looks like a nice AU coin. The mark under the branch in Liberty's left hand looks a bit distracting to me, but overall it looks a lot less dinged up than many circulated Saints. I think you did ok.
Thanks everyone! Yeah I love this coin A LOT. I've seen a lot of raw no mottos (not many d's) unslapped at shows and by far I think this one beats all of them. As an added bonus, here is the Amero that just came today too.