One of my local coin dealers used to say that if one coin grades as an MS69 then all the coins minted in the same year will grade as an MS69 as well. He was referring to a 2006 American Gold Eagle 1/10 and I believed it for awhile. What do you think, has anyone ever had a coin graded? Do you believe in having coins graded? The other evening I bought a 2009 ASE UNC and I already have a 1986, 1987, 1988, 2008 and a 1989 Proof. As I compared my new 2009 against the others I could easily see that the quality and detail of the 2009 could easily reach a higher grade than the others. My feeling is that the 2009 could reach a minimum of an MS69 or MS70. It was clear as night and day to me. Has anyone come across a similiar situation?
fretboard that is true of all coins and that is what grading is all about to begin with. No two coins are equal in every respect - ever. Each one is unique.
I think the mint has very much improved over the years. The 2009 ASE probably averages about 69 as a grade, and proof coins probably close. The thing to remember is that pricing and value is determined on how far the coin is above the average, rather than just the numeric grade. A jump from MS69 to MS70 should not have much increase in value when the average is 69, although many sellers will attempt to make you believe so. Jim
Exactly!! The reason I brought it up is b/c of a comment I saw on another thread. I didn't want to hijack that thread so I opened this one. The below post just isn't true although it may appear to be at times there really is a difference. "MS-69 MS-70, the only difference between the two is the label and the price tag.. I for one, will never own a 70..."
The above is very true. No one can see the difference between a 69 and 70 with the naked eye so why pay more for the label? It's a marketing ploy; a smoke screen for the high rollers. It's a flea circus ... don't buy into the hype.
It has been my experiance (at least where I shop) that most of the silver eagles that I pick up would grade at a '68-'69. Testimony to the advanced minting techniques at the mint....
I never got into the "high-end" mint state coins because I am well aware of how the grading standards have changed over the years and wonder if any of the major graders will be readjusting what constitutes an MS 69 or MS 70 over the next decade as, yes, more of our modern coinage gets produced with true perfection. For the same reason, I wonder how many of the recent coinage (Perhaps 1980s/1990s and later) is overpriced in the ultra-high grades, but that is just my two cents. Personally, I feel the ultra-high-grade coins strike me as a designer label, and I have a hard time noticing the differences after MS 67 - 68. Certainly, a microscopic tick or two means the difference between MS 68, 69, and 70, and I believe that is a REAL difference, but I don't know if I would spend several thousands more for an MS 70 over an MS 68-69.
I have never believed that with regards to MS grades, but do think it is true with regards to proofs. However, your point is well taken since usually the coin is not rare in either grade.
In my opinion, bullion coin grading is pointless. Rarely, probably almost never will you see a bullion coin below MS. However, I think grading is more appropriate for business strike coins... obviously a much older coin that is Mint State is going to be worth a lot more and also rarer than an AU or XF example. Bullion coins weren't meant to be circulated, so I don't see a point in attributing such importance to grades. Isn't grading supposed to be an indicator of how much circulation the coin has seen anyway?
Not a big deal for me as I only own three slabbed coins and I don't go out of my way to buy them. With that said, I would definitely have to see more slabbed 69's and 70's to decide one way or the other. One thing for certain is since I have seen the difference with my own 4 eyes and a loupe. I am way more likely to buy a slabbed coin than I was 6 months ago. Whether I would stop at an MS69 as opposed to paying more for an MS70 is not a decision that I'm willing to make before being in that position. That's not the way I do things. There's plenty of coin collectors who don't want anything to do with graded coins but one thing for sure is whether you like it or not, graded coins are here to stay.
Schroeder, I guess it all comes to the "hypothetical nature" that a bullion coin "could circulate, just as proof coins have been found in circulation (Proof-40, Proof-50, etc.) though proofs are not intended to circulate. While I don't necessarily like collecting the super-high-grade coins for a couple of the reasons discussed above, I can see why the major 3rd party graders grade Eagles on the same standards as regular-strikes. Besides, I have seen one or two poorly handled SAEs, so I guess it really is not all that hard to believe there are several AU-55s and AU-58s floating around out there. Though I suppose they aren't worth anymore than melt....
I believe that is what they were designed for....melt value...being a bullion coin. Some collect them and that is fine for they are a nice looking coin, although not as nice as the Pandas nor the Onzas IMO. When the average ASE reaches 70, the TPGs might start giving multiple stars to make a market ( MS-70*** is better than a MS-70**) Jim
"I believe that is what they were designed for....melt value...being a bullion coin." -Desert Gem True....I guess I was referring to the fact that collectors and investors seem to place a relative premium on bullion coins over MS 63-65. I can see why a collector might place a small premium over melt on uncirculated ASEs, but I would have to believe no collector would be willing to pay more than melt for an ASE with wear (or simple rub on the high points due to poor handling by a collector)!
I have never had a coin graded. I've purchased coins in slabs and broke them out for my albums. I can not understand why anyone would want a pile of plastic but then everyone has their own tasted in thier hobby. I would never send a coin for grading. Just don't see why I should. And as to the grades now being used? I really don't care about that either. I'm from a time when there was only G, F, Unc. and Proof. When they started with the VG, VF, AU stuff some years later I really thought that was going to far. Now with a 70 point system I always wonder what is next. 100 points? 1,000 points? No, I'll stick to my own old system. I'm old so I don't care what most of my coins actually are as far as a 70 point system. G, VG, F, VF, AU, Unc and Proof are good enough for me. At my age I am not planning on selling any coins, showing them off, bragging about them, etc., so what difference does it make what they are graded as? Soon enough that may well be someone else's problem.
Really, you only THOUGHT those were the grades, because that's what dealers marked their coins as. Since the beginning of collecting, there have been collectors cherry-picking out better coins being sold as a certain grade. You don't think it is a coincidence that the wealthy collectors of the last couple of centuries were able to amass FABULOUS collections of incredible quality and beauty, when the common collector would be stuck with borderline AU, polished, and whizzed coins for the Unc. price, do you? For a few bucks more they could buy that Superb gem coin, while the run-of-the-mill collector paid a few dollars less for the run-of-the-mill coin because "they are both Unc., why should I pay more?".
