Hey gang, This coin is being offered on EBay raw. There is a link to it in our auctions section. IMHO it looks really fishy to me. I don't like the pitted surfaces. Also appears to be a lump in "States" on the reverse. These are judgments based on the pictures provided.I'm not trying to torpedo anyone but I think this one needs discussed.
I agree there something odd about that 2 1/2. it my be counterfeit the lettering off to. but that my option
Fakes abound of this issue, I wouldn't even consider buying a raw one. There's no way to tell for certain if it is a fake from the images, but I am bothered by a couple of shallow depressions in front of the Indian's nose and mouth, as well as what appear to be some tool marks next to the 9. It would be interesting to examine up close, but I have no intention of buying it for that purpose.
Definately a no buy , key date of a commanlly counterfieted coin on e-bay thats not certified , and that's before looking at the coin and some of its problems . Oh I forgot lousy picture , wonder if it's located in China . Nice catch Dutchman . rzage
Also the no. 2 1/2 is so low it almost hits the rim , a diagnostic to some '11-d counterfeits . And the eagle looks funny , the eye and head . rzage
The spacing between "B" and "E" In LIBERTY looks off. Nice catch on the depressions...and tooling marks. LostDutchman, if you have this coin in person look at it with a good loupe in the neck area, look for short stubby toolmarks. Alot of these have this...it can be hard to spot so check carefully.
I have Guaranteed it Authentic for as long as you own the coin. Your Speculation based on pictures is not helpful. And everyone in the world is not enthralled by having their coins in plastic, stuck with a grade that the TPC's change over time. I do consider it offensive that you think a forum member would be stupid enough sell an IDENTIFIED COUNTERFEIT, along side a higher price unidentified counterfeit. That just doesn't make any logic at all. You are welcome to bid, Happy Bidding and good luck, it's a pretty little piece with a few pocket bag makes and scratches, if anyone gave it a shirt tail shine, it's not apparent to me or by the photo,it is circulated an to the best of my knowledge a legal piece..
"I do consider it offensive that you think a forum member would be stupid enough sell an IDENTIFIED COUNTERFEIT, along side a higher price unidentified counterfeit. That just doesn't make any logic at all." I'm sorry you're offended by the discussion of this coin. I don't see where anyone is accusing you of knowingly selling a fake. I made it pretty clear in my post that the coin can't be called a fake based on the photos. Many of us have concerns about buying raw $5 Indians, or any key, for that matter, without TPG authentication, and that is a valid concern. I am pleased to see that you guarantee the coin authentic as long as the purchaser owns it. Looking at the $10 coin which is identified as a copy, I am trying to find the word "copy" incuse into the metal. Perhaps someone with sharper eyes (maybe the owner) would point out to me what I'm missing.
It wasn't meant as anything personal at all. But from the pictures provided... I have to be honest I'm about 95% that it's bad. Your the seller and the burden of proof is on you other then just having a return policy. I think I see some tooling around the date... and the pitting on the obverse and the lump on the reverse are very common on counterfeit pieces not to mention this date is one of the most commonly counterfeited dates. There are probably ten or more counterfeit pieces for each original that exist. I have to ask what makes you think that this is a genuine piece?
There are no tooling marks around the date, 10x magnification does show tiny hairline from a rub probably, Smooth planchet are the mark of counterfeits, because 2 1/2 planchets were poor at best. Any pot marks or teeth marks are in the planchet not from counterfeiting. I am just as confident it is real. The 10 is clearly stated as a counterfeit/fake and copy in accordance with ebay policy. in the auction.
Daboz - look at it like this. They may be doing you a favor. Based on the pics there's things that concern me as well. Not enough that I can say it's a fake, but enough to make worry about it. Just a suggestion, but maybe it might be wise to pull that auction and get the coin authenticated before you try and sell it.
I maybe wrong I agree with out having the coin in hand it is hard to tell.but 1911-D are about #3 on China fake list,
It has all the stuff in Lonesome John counterfeit detection book 2 . While this may not be the end all of authority , Its what I have and looking at ebay. It does not have a weak washed out strike, the wire edges are proper in length and height, the location of the "D" is proper. There are no horizontal tool marks on the neck, There is a dimple that belongs there. The tool marks in the area in front of the arrows is proper. It weighs out ok and is the right diameter. Everything I have looked at on this coin in hand says it OK. If it is not real, you get your money back, Happy bidding. have 30 watchers and several bidders, it is to late to cancel. Thanks Dan
While it may be perfectly legal and within ebay guidelines, I don't feel it is appropriate to sell a counterfeit that hasn't been permanently marked as such. It is likely that the $10 Indian will resurface in another auction somewhere without being identified as a fake. An inexpensive set of letter punches could easily be used to mark it "copy," or it could be totally defaced and sold as bullion.
My understanding of the Hobby Protection Act allows sales to collectors. To assume the motives of the potential buyer is fruitless and heavily opinion based. It was offered as a jewelery piece. Lot of fakes end up as jewlery, they buy it somewhere.
The HPA is a toothless law. Naturally, any counterfeit produced prior to its passage is exempt. I'm sure that my fake Trade Dollars were produced pre-HPA, so I guess I could sell them on eBay too, just say "They're fake." I just feel that I have a responsibility to limit the entrance of fakes into the numismatic stream. You don't. It's an individual choice.
If you FELT so strongly as to inject into a post about a 2 1/2 , you should have bid high on it to get it off the street. You did not bid at all. I did nothing wrong and for you to imply in any way that I did is out of order.
Why should anybody bid on your fake to do something you should do ? SinceI believe in what goes around comes around , and you obviously have no scrupples about putting an unmarked fake out on ebay for someone to possibly sell as real down the line , may it come back to you tenfold . Also you didn't answer my PM to you about my concerns that your coin might be fake . rzage
