Inside the Chinese counterfiting ring

Found this on the internet on Ask.com
http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/

 

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This is really about the death of coin collecting.

 

Thanks for the link.
I wonder when China started making fakes? 1870's? Trade Dollars?

 

What is really sick is U. S. Corps. like ebay support this criminal activity , in my book ebay should be banned from the American Market place for supporting the counterfeiting of U. S. coins. : (

 

Counterfeiting has been around as long as coins have and will be as long as there is some kind of profit in it. What we as collectors need to do is educate ourself and be careful when buying any coin. Counterfeiters like these will make it harder to tell the real one from the fake one but with a good eye and knowing what to look for you can stay way from getting burned. Another way is to buy from known dealers with good reputation. If you buy from ebay use paypal and have the coin check out before giving your feedback because paypal will not release any funds on big ticket items until a feedback is given.
We just have to be careful!

 

I got a fake 1825 half cent a few months ago. The seller paid for return shipping and was very appologetic. I told him he shouldn't sell anything unless he's 100% sure he knows what he's selling. I watched him and didn't see him relist it.

 

Just a question, if some company facilitates the breaking of the law against counterfeiting, could they eventually come under the rico laws and see all their assets confiscated?

 

I don't "buy" (pun there) the above "caveat emptor" argument. There are long-established reasons governments work to stop counterfeiters.

 

As I understand it, no, facilitating counterfeiting doesn't fall under the RICO law, only 35 specific crimes fall under the RICO act, and facilitating isn't one of them, unless it's murder. I'm guessing you're referring to eBay, for eBay to fall under the RICO law it would have to be deemed a "criminal enterprise", committing 2 crimes (of the 35 covered in the RICO act) in a 10 year period. But the actual counterfeiters organizations would 100% fall under the RICO law, and be subject to criminal prosecution and forfeiture of all their profits.

 

I agree with you totally!! One of the problems is coins are just a small part of the money that ebay pulls in. If ebay did only coins they would have been put out of business a long time ago. Some Chinese criminals have been making counterfeits for alot of years as it's legal over there. It doesn't only happen in the coin industry either. Also it doesn't just affect the American market.

Chinese criminals are an interesting group b/c they don't care who they burn or what merchandise they have to use. They make Chinese counterfeits as well as other coinage. American coinage is very popular thus the masses of counterfeits being made, supply and demand.

Unfortunately we will have to deal with this another way because although ebay is aware of it, the Chinese are small potatoes in their book. Ebay does occasionally boot someone off of their site but I have only heard of one actual arrest that ebay was involved in. An occasional kicking somebody off of ebay means they just get a new computer and Paypal account, no big problem there. I heard of one arrest and conviction recently and that was the Canadian counterfeiter and seller of rare or scarce coins. It was so long ago I forget the specifics but from what I remember Ebay helped Canadian law enforcement with that bust.

Anyways, the best we can do is what we are doing now. Once in awhile someone on this forum will see a fake on ebay and a couple of members will send messages to the seller. This is very effective, I think. Anyone remember coingirl or coingal the seller of that fake 1921 Mercury dime a couple weeks ago? I wonder what happened to her sleazy duff?

 

"pappy-os law", don't do business with known "COUNTERFEITERS & THEIR ACCOMPLICES" :hammer:

 

Pirating other US intellectual property (CDs, DVDs, etc) was legal, too...until our trade agreements pressured them to stop (or slow down, anyway).

Perhaps I'll send an email to Steny Hoyer....Steny will get to the bottom of this. :hammer:

 

Define "accomplices". Do you include the Postal service and the shipping firms which deliver their products over here? And what about the Internet itself which makes the selling of the product here so easy? How about the providers of internet access such as the Phone company or Cable services? Have you sworn off all of these?

 

My guess would be anyone who gets on ebay and knowingly sells one of these coins could be considered an accomplice, especially if they start making a living off of it. Even more so if they have created a conspiracy to get more.

I don't really think it could go as far as the postman b/c they don't know what's in the packages they deliver. As far as other routes of distribution or unknowingly giving internet access for the counterfeiters to sell their coins that would definitely be a Perry Mason tv show in the making.

Oh not Perry Mason anymore that was awhile back. lol

 

just an FYI,
I think those pictures have been around for quite a while.

 

"accomplices" : a person who knowingly participates with another in an unlawful act ; partner in crime :rolling: and I would also add what fretbaord posted :smile don't you think its time to clean up the internet & send the criminals to prison, oh and don't you think its time to go after China & North Korea:hug: for flooding the world with their counterfeiting of U. S. coins & currency

 

:loud: Absolutey!! Let's get em' boys!!

 

Most of these pictures I have seen before, and they are still just as depressing to me now as when I first saw them. To me this is just another example of an "invasion" of our nation's history and integrity that is allowed to continue. I agree that if this is allowed to continue it may very well be the death to our hobby.

Our elected leaders don't care, it doesn't create good sound-bites for them. The argument about more urgent problems to take care of is not valid in my opinion. This is because they are not taking care of those either. I have to be careful here not to turn this into a political post, but who else has the power to really do anything constructive about this.

Saying there has always been counterfieters and always will be is also not a valid argument in my opinion. If our nation aggressively tried to prevent this it would not stop, but to use this as an argument is nothing short of a surrender. If one really didn't take the time to look closely go back and look again at the volume of coins shown. If thirty to forty per cent of these coins were prevented from reaching our shores then we would be talking about a lot of coins.

The argument about knowledge is valid, but how valid is it for someone just starting into the hobby as a beginner or novice? If one has to spend months learning about the hobby before even buying a coin due to fear of spending tens, hundreds, or thousands of dollars on a fake I would think they would find a different hobby. We all know this hobby takes a good deal of knowledge and learning before one even gets into counterfeit detection.

Obviously this is very upsetting to me.

 

You're right and alot of us are upset by this whole situation. Sure someone can say write your congressman but unless you can articulate the damage as a whole and how it affects the world or even communities you will be SOL.

Unfortunately innocent ppl are being robbed by criminal enterprises daily and not only that but our sacred coinage and all the things that represent America are being mocked. Now if you are really good at taking your time and writing up a petition to send to a congressman, Senator or even higher I will gladly sign it. Or someone can take the idea below and work with that.

I suggest that if anyone knows a news anchor or even a newspaper person that you present this reality to them to do a public interest story. Personally I think the idea of a public interest story would go further than trying to take it to top government officials b/c they are not going to care about a couple million coin collectors. Sure I know that there are more than a couple of million of us but I still think that the public interest story would go further. If it hits a local news station you can put it on youtube and send links out all over the www. Anyways, food for thought... :secret:

Put a bug in someone's ear, you never know what will come out of it.

 

Terrible idea...If every market place was closed down because some scum that opened a stall and sold something they werent supposed to, there would be no market places...This is displacing blame from the crooks.

PS: How many times are these exact pictures going to be posted to send people into a paranoid anti-china tizzy? I guess all the other people commiting this crime in England, Bulgaria, Italy, US, Etc...love the chinese these days since people seem to forget the many millions of pounds and dollars faked each year by these people and seem to think only the chinese fake coins.