I have just (knowingly) bought two fake Chinese coins - just out of interest, paid 99p each. I would appreciate some help in identifying the first (I recognise the characters Qian Long and Bao on the obverse, plus some numbers). I don't recognise the script on the reverse at all. The second coin has on the reverse what looks to me like the denomination 5 Mace. Is this normal? I have seen 3 Mace, 6 candareen, and 7 Mace 2 candareen coins, but not a 5 Mace. Both coins stick to a magnet like glue. What other aspects show them to be fakes? Any help much appreciated, as my area of specialisation is cast coins, not this type.
I have never seen the top coin, but the dragon coin has several problems 1) lettering above and below dragon too large. 2) on the reverse the Manchu characters have been moved from the center to the top 3) the dragon itself is just wrong, for one it should have a circular thing behind the head ( looks kind of like a halo) This is what they should look like.
If you look at the edge, the reeding is usually poorly done. The indvidual groves and ridges should be evenly spaced, sharp and cut from obverse to reverse, with even wear on circulated specimins. On fakes it may be filled in, cross hatched and you may see machine doubling or even a seem where it was cast.
The script on the reverse reads. A fool and his money are soon parted. Why would you purchase a known fake then try and attrib the thing? Its a fake, it could be a cross of twenty different coins or something randomly made up. Doesnt make sense to me.
While I suspected these items were fakes, I could not be sure without them in hand.....you can't put a magnet to a photo on eBay. Purchasing the items very cheaply was part of my learning experience. While I had some idea of what the Guang Xu item should look like, I was unable to find any reference to the other, altho I'm sure I've seen it before somewhere. Smart remarks are not very helpful, but thanks anyway.
ls8driver, As you may know, I am not knowledgeable about Chinese struck coins so I cannot give you any advice concerning how to determine real silver coins from fakes. Since neither coin passed the magnet test, you have already determined that they are, indeed, fakes. However, I think I can provide some additional information regarding the first coin. The reason you are having trouble reading the reverse side is because it is written in Tibetan. The inscription on the reverse, written in Tibetan, is actually the same as the Chinese inscription on the obverse side. The Chinese inscription on the obverse reads qian long bao zang. You identified correctly the first three characters (top, bottom and right). As you know, qian long refers to the Qing (Ch'ing) Dynasty Emperor Gao Zong (1736-1795), and bao means "treasure" but here can be understood to mean "currency". The character on the left is zang. Zang refers to the Zang (Tibetan) nationality and the character is actually written in a very stylized script. The coin was therefore made to be used in Tibet. The "numbers" you mention near the outer rim on the obverse side read "year 58". This means that the coin was made in the 58th year of the reign of Emperor Gao Zong. Since he ascended the throne in 1736 this means the coin was made in 1793 (year 1736 counts as "year 1"). Regarding the second coin, I can only confirm that the value is "wu qian" which, as you have noted, translates as "5 mace". Again, I am not familiar with Chinese silver coinage so I cannot confirm whether the "5 Mace" denomination is "normal" or not. Gary
Understanding that the second coin (Chihli dragon coin, dated 1903) is a fake, I don't know what it is meant to imitate. It does say 5 mace, but I didn't know that denomination existed. The placement of the manchu script is also strange, as previously noted. Fantasy piece?
Compare with zeno.ru database image #6059 Sino-tibetan 1 sho Qian Long period 58th year (1793) my fake is too big (32mm) and too heavy (10.2g)
I'm not sure about Chinese or Annamese coins, but the magnet test isn't necessarily conclusive when dealing with Japanese coins of the same basic design. At various times during the millennium+ of production, some Japanese cash coins were cast in iron.
One good method to tell counterfeits is to compare the coin to one you know is real , compare lettering , portraits ,and dates . Also look for tooling marks that look out of place , small raised dots , the reeding as mentioned earlier by k9brain are often neglected by counterfeiters and are often done crudely , also a mushy look with a loss of detail , and week dentricles . rzage
