1909-S VDB RB Lincoln

Howdy peeps,

I sent this to Jack and he said it's a fake:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250481575007

I do not collect Lincolns so it would fool me but I trust Jack's opinion on it. :bow: I figured there are others here that it would fool so take a good look at it and watch this thread for someone to explain the tells to look out for.

Ribbit

 

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Yeah...how would you know? ...and who would buy a coin that expensive on eBay? ...from Madrid, Spain?

 

E-bay is a death trap

 

Curious..what gives it away..the VDB or the S?

 

A complete guess but the rims look awfully big for a business strike.

I too would like to here from the experts to see what's up.

 

Someone said there is something wrong with the reverse but the "S" mint mark is also off. I'm hoping Jack will wake up soon and brief us on the tells. :bow:

Ribbit

 

The shape of the S is a dead giveaway. There is only one shape, and 4 positions to the SVDB, this is not one of them:whistle:

 

is not the VDB in the wrong spot?

 

The VDB seems a bit to the left....

 

The VDB is in it's correct left of center position.

Something just seems off as well, I do not think this is an added S coin, I think it is a die struck counterfeit.

 

Jack knows better than I, but I'm not sure. It looks like a die 4 to me.

Nonetheless, when I see a rare coin like this in this condition I always wonder why it's not slabbed. If you're going to sell a $2000+ coin, why wouldn't you slab it first to eliminate all question? For me, that's a HUGE red flag. Also, the head doesn't look right to me, it's not fully struck at the side of forehead, above the ear, cheek and jaw. These are normally well stuck from dies that were in a good state. Something doesn't look right with the rims either. The obverse motto looks like it's slanting downward. Also, when selling a coin like this raw.....why wouldn't you include close-up shots of the mint mark and die markers? And....the final strike...

There's no way in hell I'd personally buy a coin like this without seeing in hand first unless it was a very reputable dealer with a solid return policy. If I'm buying something this sweet for my collection that's big bucks, I just HAVE to see it in hand. For me, it's all about the in-hand eye appeal!

If it is a fake, I agree with Jack that's it's die struck. Not sure how they pulled that off because the reverse is correct. I can't find a fault with the reverse from the pictures.

 

that S is so hinkey looking its not funny. Jack is right, with a coin like this without an in hand look there is no way.

 

OK, I was bored!

Jack has a dam good eye! The mint mark is pretty good, it's one of the better fakes I've seen....but it looks like they are ball vs. the genuine trumpet. Also, there's a problem with the 9's. I blew up the ebay pic and you can clearly see the 9's on the fake turn inward and are pointed, they are flat on a genuine SVDB.

I seen a few fakes, but this coin is one of the best I've seen. I hope some other collectors learn a lesson from the this thread rather than with their wallets.

 

Thanks guys for the Kudos

This is an example of a not so intricate Chinese ( guess) fake..........

I have bought every fake available for referance and have several fakes from different manufacturers of this date that still currently sell on Ebay.

The trick these days is to tumble ( any firearm reloader will have this equiptment ) , burnish, retone and make " good " on an obvious fake coin. Circs are less obvious than a gem red.

In this one particular instance, we have documented diagnosis on the mintmark punch....ONE punch was used on 4 dies.....thats it, period, nothing else. You can do some google searching and learn these looks.....This mintmark is not genuine.

What happened last year was a seller from China was selling SVDB !!! ROLLS !!! of fakes ( other dates as well ) ....now is the trickle down of that large 1 week sale

Aim yourself with knowledge, if you are not sure, buy a book instead.....

Raw keydates are only for pros..........

 

I contacted the seller, who replied, indicating that he would end the listing and have the coin checked out. To his credit, he has already ended the listing.

 

Way to go Toad, good catch :thumb::thumb:

 

I have to agree with Schwalbe and the big Yakpoo. Buying on Ebay is a real tobaggon ride. While we have all done it, in fact I just purchased a Peace dollar, I put a limit of $50 per item on anything I buy. This way if my brand new Peace dollar ends up looking like it was scrubbed clean with a brillo pad, in this case it's only a $36.00 controversy in my life.

For anything worth more than, relatively speaking, a nominal amount, as a seller on Ebay you have to depend on two things from me if you expect to sell me that item:

1. You have to be somewhat local from where I am because;

2. You can expect a visit from me to personally inspect the item first and then pay for it right then and there.

So as far as that penny is concerned I wouldn't be interested in whether it is authentic or not because it isn't a local seller. Just the opinion of a very simple, in fact almost cavemanlike, person.

 

Jack was the one that caught it, I just found it. I sent it to him and he outed it.

I figured it was good enough to post here for others to learn from, cause it sure had me fooled. :goofer: Thank God I don't dew early stuff.

Ribbit

 

Hey, tht looks just like the S-VDB I bought from Jack...:goofer:Just kiding. Great post and very informative. Nice looking out toad and nice eyes Jack.

 

Jack who?