The fix is in on ebay...

I sold this PMG 25 fr#1183 1906 $20 gold cert.about 4 weeks ago for a decent profit.And now looking threw the bay I came across this great looking FR.1183 1906 out of a holder and graded AU and when I looked closer I realized it was the note that I sold but now it was in AU condition. Here are my pictures in the holder when sold and the pictures after the bill was fixed.I hope this post doesn't offend anybody by posting it,But it really bothers me to see this going on.This is why I only buy graded bills...Thanks Randy

 

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The posted pics are too small to see any detail, but i understand your frustration at what happened. Keep in mind, that blindly only buying slabbed notes is not the cure their have been 'treated' notes that found their way into a slabb....

 

Everything with photos is fixed

 

i agree with your frustration. as one who buys a lot of notes from ebay i hate to see stuff like this happen. do you know if the person that is selling the note is the same one that had won your auction? if the auction isnt over yet i would report it to ebay and see if it can be taken down. by looking at your original note in the slab and then the one being resold on ebay you can notice it is lighter both front and back. only problem is the average buyer wouldnt really know that note has been doctored. i would even send that seller an email regarding them selling doctored notes. gl

 

Just wondering if the buyer and seller are the same name?

Will have to dop some searching! I really dislike dishonest people...

 

Yes buyer and seller are the same.What he does is he uses 2 accounts 1 for buying and this account will always have private feedback so you can't see what he bought and the second account will be for selling everything he obtained.What really makes me mad is that he has some very high priced notes in the $3,000 to $10,000 range and all of these notes are not in holders and basically look like my bill did.This is the second seller that I found doing this. P.S.The person selling the $20 gold cert has about 15 notes on his site all ungraded but in AU condition...Thanks Randy

 

If you want a honest opinion I dont think ebay will do anything about it, after all what has he realy done that breaks ebay rules? (Forget for a moment the morality of it) He has taken a note out of its slab (Not against the rules) he says it is a certain grade (Now this might well be against the rules) but his argument will be that since you had it graded he thinks it would grade better! Now as for the photo he just says well I am a better photographer and you cant proof diffrently, taken in differing conditions in a slab and out.
I hope you see the difficulty of complaining and I am sure he would also say well there was nothing to stop you doing it but as it is now his property!

Now from a personal point of view I detest doctored pics and those who use them. so good luck with the complaint

 

Sorry to say, this is nothing new.

I get weird responses from eBay sellers all the time, because I will ask for images of the reverse of the note. That is where all the tell tale signs of having been folded etc. are. When banknotes are folded, even softly, there is some degree of paper breakage. When they are folded hard, there is paper breakage and some dirt or foreign matter imbedded. I recently had this come up with an early 20th century Scottish note that I saw on eBay.

When they are cleaned, doctored, pressed etc, the tell tale signs are all there to see on close examination. The $20 here shows all the tell tale signs of having been pressed on the reverse, notice where the folds are are now flattened unduly -the surface of the paper is not even and is dull. Pressing is something that fools a lot of people, and as others have noticed, fools TPG's too. You often have to really look at the note closely, even with a magnifying glass or high resolution scan to see the problems.

 

If I can hold the note before the purchase I have a small blacklight that I bought for about $10 and that will show even the faintest fold or dirt that you can't see.And as for complaining to ebay I wouldn't even waste my breath..Thanks Randy
THE BLACKLITE I USE IS A (CODE 10 BLACKLITE) THAT HAS THE CORRECT BULB FOR CURRENCY BECAUSE IT IS MADE FOR THE RETAIL MARKET FOR FRAUD PROTECTION FOR COUNTERFIET BILLS

 

Hate to say it Randy but you are more than likely correct in that assumption that it would be a waste of breath

 

I am not so sure that this wouldn't count as fraud. Having a respected TPG give it one grade then selling at a much higher grade is a little more than misleading. If I could find the two auctions I would report him. I don't know, this seems pretty far over the line to me.?.

 

This is pretty low and I'm sure it happens all the time. I don't know if the pic has been doctored (could be just different lighting for the picture) but this guy is the low of the low. It's nothing different than buying a coin in a NCS slab, cracking it out, and making no mention of any damage it has. People like this give our hobby a bad name.

 

Problem is Darryl how many times have we heard of people breaking coins out of slabs to send them in for re clasification and them coming back a better grade often from a compeating service? Grading is after all simply a opinion and not something that is set in stone, how often will two companies agree? The seller can claim it was his opinion. Not having seen the new sellers auction I can not say what he is actualy claiming for the note all I can do is speculate. Until Ebay change there rules then there realy is not a lot one can do.

 

TPG's are no better than the people that grade for them, they are all fallible. In the end all that really matters is what you yourself as the collector think of something, then and only then, are you a true collector and not a speculator/investor etc. Frankly I couldn't give a rats' hind end what someone in a TPG thinks of something.

Education and knowledge are key, most of us at one time or another, hopefully early on, learned the hard way - being burned by something like note doctors etc.

 

Trouble is, education is only kind of useful when buying online. Photos can be taken or even altered to make an item look better than it is. You may not care what a TPG thinks, but when buying online that does provide a certain degree of security and comfort. I doubt a major TPG mistook a AU50 note for a VF25. But, the pictures from this auction make this note look AU50.

When buying in person, I agree...I don't really care what the TPG thinks as I trust myself to make my own choices. But, when buying online...my knowledge becomes less useful and I am much more comfortable if the coin or note is in a slab.

 

I never even thought the picture itself was altered... i thought from the momenti saw the note it looked like it had a chemical bath to 'clean' it up.

If it is just a doctored image, then i hope educated collectors who bid on it know enough about grading to possibly see any image edits. If however, the note has been cleaned or gone through any number of other processes used to turn an XF note into an AU note.... then yes, i think fraud is apparent! Unfortunately, a person would have to buy and hold the note in hand to see exactly!

 

:secret:there are TPG's grading paper that are not worth the paper we all wipe ourselves with.

 

That is true, but it's the same thing with coins. I wouldn't trust an SGS slab on eBay to be even close to correct but with a PCGS or NGC I know they are at least in the ballpark. The OP's note was graded by PMG which is quite reputable.

 

Too small for me to see . are the serial #s different?

 

Well? I think the latter TPG is a bit less consistent than their main competitor as far as grading. That said they are better than the majority of the fray, some of which boggle comprehension and are akin to... well you get the picture.