Hi, OK, maybe just 3 or 4 ( couldn't resist the pun ). What does the text mean around the bottom of the OBV mean after the ( assayers initials, I think ) R.M.: "40 D. sm. s 20 G. sm. s" ? What are the attributes to grading these coins - how much of the LIBERTAD shows? The Eagle Feathers? I got this as a gift 30 years ago and it was stored in a soft plastic ( PVC - laden, I think ) flip. I did not know this and as you can see it has green slime(?) on it. What can I do to remove it w/o making the finish even worse than it is? Looks like someone really tried to scrub it years back ( no, not me ). Acetone? How long? Is there any value to this coin over and above it's silver content and the fact that it just feels good in the hand? Mike PS: Is it "Reale" or "Real" or either one interchangeably?
Yes, the R.M. are the assayer's initials. What is written after that is actually 10 Ds. 20 Gs. which means '10 dineros 20 granos' and refers to the silver fineness (0.903). The weight of the coin should be about 27.22g. 8 Reales (plural) is the correct way to spell the currency unit. Acetone can be used to remove the PVC. Yours was minted in Durango. The D should have an 'o' after it but appears only partially on this example. This coin is 'slightly scarce' so does have a small premium. The harsh cleaning would bring that value down somewhat.
Thank you very much acanthite, Well, looks like I need to do more research on Dineros and Granos for fineness info. Are there many other coins - other than Spain, Mex., etc - that so blantantly display the silver content? ( why yes, I am pretty new to all this ) Seems pretty common w/ Hispanic origin pieces. Knew about the Durango mint and the bad 'O' on the coin. Coin actually looks much better in hand - nice tone and luster. May be more wear marks than anything. The photos are, well, terrible... Do you know anything about how these are graded? I have new 100% acetone and have tried removing what I thought was PVC ( looks the same on both coins - stored in same flips ) from a one sided Peace dollar. This test coin soaked for 24 hours and it did not touch it - even with light rubbing. Maybe it is clad.? Mike
It used to be that silver was accounted for by the Castillian marc, or 3550 1/2 Troy grains. Each marc was 8 ounces. And when coins were issued, the mints were directed to issue so many coins per marc. The fineness of the silver was determined by that. And it could vary from time to time depending on Royal Decree. But when dineros is used, it refers to the fineness of the silver. The fineness of silver is determined by breaking it into 12 dineros of 24 granos (grains) each. The Spaniards used to weigh gold and silver differently. A marc of gold for example had 4800 grains, while a marc of silver had 4608 grains. But in Troy weight a marc only had 3550 1/2 grains. To us it is a confusing system, but it worked for them. It is also worth noting that the universal measure of weight, the marc, varied greatly depending on which country you were in at the time. The grade of that coin I would put at AG.
GD, thanks, I was just reading background on Dinero/Grano/Marc as well as Pillars, Thalers, etc., etc. The dollar sign origins. 12 pages deep into internet links, trying to find my way back. Geez... now I'm looking at all these notes and coins and so much to read. and sorting pennies - don't get me started. Deep breathes - easy now. :smile Mike
There are various coins (other than Mexican) for which the fineness or silver grain count is explicitly stated on the coin. Four examples I can think of offhand are US trade dollars, Japanese yen, French Indochinese trade coins, (all from the late 1800's) and Venezuelan silver coins from the early 1900's. There are many other examples.
I forgot all about the Trade Dollar and I did find a 1901 Silver 1 Yen coin with "1 Yen" surrounded w/ "416" and "900". I guess grains and fineness values. Thanks for the enlightenment! Mike
I appreciate the thought, Ripley, I also wished I owned it. Probably would be a better collector if I did. But I'm learning... I did find a wealth of info on Chinese, Japanese and Viet Nam coinage and learned how to read the dynasties and simple numerals - really helped date most of my coins. I served in the Marines over there and got a few coins from each of the 5 countries I was in. GDJMSP ( bless his heart ) has me a laundry list of Numismatic Resources here on CT to read. Well and above the 4 books I own. Alas, quite a few links don't work anymore and a few that I needed are very hard to glean info from ( at least for a coin newbie ). Seems you need to somewhat learn how to operate it before you understand the manual. :smile Mike
Yeah, I gotta make time to work on that section again, get rid of the bad links and try to find new ones, plus add some other new ones. But specifically what is it you can't figur eout right now ?
Since you asked... Well, been fooling w/ the internet for almost 20 years now ( I'm 57 ). Have been on many forums for various hobbies, etc., just not coin studying and collecting. Each time I will "lurk" for weeks, as I did here, gleaning info, searching my butt off, reading posts, going thru the various forum areas to find the right matches or groups for q $ a's. I hate to ask obvious and stupid questions. Pinpointing an answer is really hard now with the way the search engines work. Most forums use just a few services and they all, if not most, are aggravating. An example: My 1st set of questions involved a 20th Century Type set. Search engine gives me "20th" and "Century" hits - lots to go thru and so many non-applicable posts ( hey, I just bought my 20th Ike..." and "What Century is your favorite for cents...?" ) 8 Real or 8 Reales was a good one. Maybe - most probably, it's me - I'll keep trying. In the meantime - any hints? :bow: Mike
