PVC and/or Vertigris How do I proceed?

I just purchased this difficult to find 1969 Indian Head Cent and I know I can remove the contaminants safely.I believe it has both PVC damage and Vertigris. I've purchased Verti-Gone from Jack and I have Acetone at home. I'd like to know from those who have experienced this dilema and resolved it. I want to turn this coin int the beauty that lies within. I need your expertise, guys.

Bruce

 

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Give us more up close photos. I have found that what it looks that you have on this coin comes off with a rose thorn and several weeks soak in mineral oil in a plastic cup. Use a rose thorn to gentlely pick off. Remove the oil with acetone. I have written extensively on this subject myself with instructions (do a search), but we would need better photos to see if that is appropriate. Then use Verdigone (maybe 50% diulted) in glass cup (Verdigone comes with good instructions). You may have porosity under that green verdigris and putting it in a sulfur flip or album would help to fill in the porosity with copper sulfur film (toning). Get us better photos please. Good post

 

BOSS, KEEP ON CLICKING THE PHOTOS AND THEY WILL FILL THE SCREEN.(Darn caps lock) I know there have been extensive experiments here on CT that showed how the Vertigon works and I'm sure I read your posts on the acetone/rose thorn method. Thoses treatments are exactly what I was looking for. I'll do the search for these methods when I get home. I'm still visiting family on the east coast.

And I know Dougs method works or else he wouldn't put it out there. I'll be trying these methods and I'll see if I can get some progress photos too.

Thanks guys. Any more suggestions fro the experts? Kiss
Bruce

 

Doug's method will work for PVC (which I do not think you have), but not verdigris. Verdi-gone will work on verdigris, but not severe infestation which I am pretty sure you do have. That being said, both of those treatments are safer and less damaging to the coin than the rose thorn.

 

maybe olive oil?

 

mralexanderb: I don't believe you have much PVC. Acetone won't hurt the coin whatsoever, so try Doug's method. I think you then could try the methods I explained. Don't do the rose thorn without extensive practice on junk wheats. The coin you have is decent, IMO. I would soak for 2-3 weeks in mineral oil (or could do olive maybe one week- it is slightly acidic) and then gently remove with rose thorn. Acetone will not remove verdigris at all. I have removed ALL of the green stuff you see on many coppers with no ill effect and a super looking coin afterward. Final treament would be to coat with Blue Ribbon, Coin Care, or Mineral oil. I will not debate with others about this. This is what most conservation experts (those who know these methods well and are successful with them) would do. Go to the NGC boards and you will see evidence of the point I just made. Don't do your self on this coin if you are not experienced.

 

Into the acetone

These scans are about 16 hours soaking in acetone. As you can see some of the black matter on the obverse is gone. Still, some remains. Back into clean acetone after a distilled water bath. More scans to come.

I'm waiting for the Vertigone to arrive in the mail.

Bruce

 

I have used coin care after acetone on IHC's and it seems to be OK. It doesn't effect the metal or the look of the coin. I hope this helps..

 

I suspect that there will be some of the deeper verdigris left in some spots after Verdigone treatment. You might read some of Thad's ( inventor) postings on CoinCommunity website on "spot treatment" of areas with verdigone. Parts of the coin appears like it might react to that better, such as in dentices and close to devices.

But I am sure it will appear better looking when finished. Follow the directions carefully and there is little danger. Of course you don't know what is hidden by the large areas covered on the reverse, so be prepared. Like pits, scratches, etc.

Products like coin care are a mixed blessing. The oil does limit some gases such as oxygen from the surface, but also can contain ( naturally) sulfur unless synthetic. If a coin was to be stored in a cardboard 2x2, it probably leans to the benefit side, but is hard to completely remove when you want to. If it to be stored in an air-tite, koin-tain, or other tight seal holder, I would not use it, as no real benefit and it might make the holder/foam react. IMO.

Jim

 

The Verti-gone arrived today, but I'm going to wait an see how much more comes off this coin. Much of the dried debris that was in the "United States Of America" is gone. So far this coin is starting to shape up. The true test will be the Verti-gone. I want to get this right.

Bruce

 

Jim, I was hoping you'd drop in on this thread. I followed your Verti-gone experiments and was quite pleased and surprised how well the product did. I know I have plenty of verdigris on this coin but I have faith in the Verti-gone.(So far as your project went).

I also have a 1870 IHC soaking in a separate container with, GULP, more green damage on it than the 1869 IHC. I am working on both coins at this time.

I plan to check into Thads spot treatments in the near future. At least, before I start with the Verti-gone.

As far as storing the coin after treatments, I'm planning to keep it in an airtite for the rest of it's days, (years).

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce,

The area that I thought might be the toughest was on the bust near the necklace,it appeared to be fairly heavy there. Pitted areas are tough as so little surface area. The flat open areas generally do the best. I have no financial interest in it, and it is not perfect, but I don't think anything else comes close myself. Like any other powerful treatment, one can go to far. Better to stop before that point and weigh the result. You can always do more, but not less

Jim

 

Hello

I always like to recommend starting any conservation project using distilled water. With verdigris or PVC damage you want to first solubilize the residual acids on the surface. PVC damage contains hydrochloric acid and verdigris contains both hydrochloric and sulfuric acid. Those acids are most soluble in water.

After a good, long soak in water (and perhaps changing it out a couple of times)..... move to acetone. It will remove a lot of polar and non-polar organic contaminants.

Your scanner doesn't produce good enough images for me to get a decent look at the verdigris. From what I can tell, a lot of it is light. With a coin of this value, you want to be extra careful in your conservation efforts. Going beyond water and acetone is a serious commitment, especially if you're inexperienced at coin conservation. Not sure how much you paid for the coin, but you might consider leaving this one to the pros like NCS. You certainly don't want to damage the coin any worse than it is already.

If you decide to move forward, I suggest you practice on non-valuable coins first. Remember, there's a big difference between conservation and cleaning. Once you cross that line there's no returning.

 

that is quite rare I've never heard of a 1969 indian cent
get it graded and drop it to the highest bidder

 

Looks like somebody already got to it with some chemical already so..lighter fluid or peroxide would be my next attempts.

 

It kills me to see that coin! I know what I would do with it. I stick by what I said. You have stuff that needs both mineral oil and Verdigone. I would do mineral oil, but as I previously said and Thad just said. Practice on junk. Resists doing on this coin. I have personally practiced on hundreds of coins and use Verdigone when I am sure it's verdigris. Oil will remove verdigris in time, but many times Verdigone is better. Can't use Verdigone on MS coins and oil has worked well on such coins for me. Practice on junk as it seems you haven't done this before or much, based on what your implying. Keep us posted. Very curious how it turns out. These are my favorite kind of threads, thanks for sharing.
PS- I have intentionally bought coins in the local shop cause they needed saving. Haven't gone wrong yet with this treatment, except with previously documented mistakes, that I learned from, and hopefully others.

 

The NCS route it looking much safer than me using the Verti-gone without any trial runs. I'll remove the coin from the acetone and scan it again. I feel safe enough with the acetone/distilled water routine so I'll keep that up for a while.

Bruce