COIN BUYING EDUCATION 101-5 ( New 8/29)

I am going to say that this has been graded ms 65, that some of the missing detail is due to die deterioration, since I have a better example already for my type set, I pass on the buy it now, but it is a good deal for someone who wants it.

So thats my guess now to wait and see if my streak of understating the grade continues.

 

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No Problem. Also a possible hint, this was submitted about 20 years ago

 

Without the coin in hand, it's difficult with these pictures. For me however, I'd be surprised if it received a grade/holder other than "cleaned or environmental damage". Details AU IMHO

 

OK, Granny, I'll commit to AU details, env. damage! Now I wait to be hung out to dry!

 

Personally I would not pay $17 dollars, maybe I'm wrong but it looks like an extremely weak reverse. more hints?

 

I have undergraded all the other coin education topics, so this time I took what I thought, and then added the difference I have been wrong before that is how I came up with my ms 65, I am feeling pretty confident that the losing streak will come to an end, maybe not this time but even a blind robin finds a worm now and then.

Just a thought about weak strikes in general, it seems to me that factoring in weak strikes for the grade makes grading more subjective, I do not think grading needs to be more subjective. The analogy is like testing at school, everybody gets the same test, but factoring in weak strikes is like adding ten points to charleys test because charley typically forgets to answer two or three questions.

But if everybody factors in weak strikes and a few do not then the few that do not stand to lose out on the resale oppurtunity, not that we need to wring the last cent from any transaction, but with the differing values based on grade sometimes being multiples within one point losing a few points can mean a pretty big loss financially.

 

Great job as always with these, Desertgem. I am going to say what others are seeing as wear is a weak strike and guess MS64. Grandma's price is a good one although the fingerprints are a bit of a concern.

 

Results:

It really amazes me how much some of you see in the photographs. It has really improved my "vision" also. The last part of this story is somewhat in the air as I will explain shortly.

First: it is NGC MS64, but it is not in a slab. Also although not noted on the label, it does have some PVC "oiliness" and fingerprints develop in the 20 years since being graded.

Back in the dark ages of online auctions, 1989, Teletrade had just started, by mailing a catalog out and bidders dialed their phones and tapped out their bids by touchtone. PCGS was using their Old green rattlers slabs and NGC was just coming into activity. NGC pre-graded some coins for teletrade, and put them into PVC flips with a label bearing a handwrittern grade. Teletrade advertised them as NGC MS64 in my catalog. I am the original buyer.





I had the decision to either break them out, and remove the pvc plasticizers ( there doesn't appear under the scope to be irreversible damage) with acetone and keep raw or resubmit........Or, check with NGC and see if this was covered by their guarantee. Copper is only guaranteed for 10 years, but there was no limit on silver that I could find. I called NGC and they were confused by my description of the flip/label with NGC on it. The said are you sure it doesn't say NCE or NNC. No I said. The nice lady went to check with senior members of the staff and they said they had never heard or seen of such, so please send email photos ( the ones you see here) and they would let me know if they would replace them or not. I said it might be nice to do.

But then I wondered if the trouble was worth it, since it and its brother ( same type flip) are not high valued coins, but we will see what they say.

So Give yourself a pat if you said MS64 +/- and bonus points for noticing the problems. I think the strike got a few people. I think it is a good price, but that is all in the opinion of the person. Thanks for playing! I will let you know what NGC finally says.:secret:

I hope you enjoyed this little deviation as most have never seen this type of certification. The teletrade # on the back is 4992. If it wasn't for the problem, I would keep as is for the historical interest.

Jim

 

That's something alright! I can't wait to hear what NGC comes back with.
Very cool and tricky one this time. I knew when you reminded us that this was graded about 20 years ago that something was up. Thanks Jim these threads really keep my attention, anticipation and enthusiasm going.

 

So technically I was right, But there is still a chance I could be wrong? I am so confused :desk: Well guess we will wait with you here Jim and see what NGC says. By the way good exercise I enjoyed it, Thank you.

 

No , I think you did very well! Even with the problems ( which I think are easily corrected with acetone ), there is no cleaning.

Jim

 

I had the same thought Doug has. I also wonder if, based on your first photo in the flip, if the fingerprint on the reverse occurred when the coin was placed in the flip (if either is true, the Teletrade people or NGC surely should have known better).

In any event, great exercise, enjoyed as always.

 

MS 64! I just swallowed my bubble gum!!!

 

I did read through the thread, but first I went ahead and graded the coin based on what I saw. My grade was 64!
Of course the bell lines aren't there, but the luster is great, and the amount of detail seems to be about the norm that you would see on this date, and in that grade.

When I read that it was graded some 20 years ago I almost regraded it down to a 58/60 -

It will be very interesting to hear what NGC says - I would suggest Jim, that before you send it back you get in touch with some slab collectors as this would be worth MUCH more to them.

Speedy

 

Why would it be worth "much more" to them speedy? I don't follow that. I know some collectors will pay a premium for the old PCGS holders, but I'm not confident the same premise holds true in this situation.

 

It is kindof like a body bag in a way - why wouldn't anyone think they are worth $$, but in fact they are, and they sell on ebay often.
This is a neat type of "slab" from NGC, and I really doubt there are many out there that still has the coin inside. I know I have never seen one - it would be interesting to hear if Conder has ever seen one, and if so, if it is included in his book.

Speedy

 

Doug and all,
The oiliness was not there when received and neither was the fingerprint. My book says it was "bright white, frosty" . It is only in the last 4-5 years I started to suspect I was heading to a decision point, and looking at them last month, I decided to do something. For a long time, I thought "Nah, NGC wouldn't use PVC flips", but my coinmaster album from that era had PVC plasticized pages, which had to be replaced, so there wasn't the awareness as today.

Speedy, I did wonder about the idea of selling to a collector of certification memorabilia, but I don't feel right selling it with the plasticizers present. That is why I presented it here as I don't intend it for sale. It will be interesting to see what NGC has to say about it.

I must admit, it wasn't the fairest trick, The next one will be straight

Jim

 

Well as long as you made note of it in the auction/ad, then I don't see how it could come back on you. Besides - a slab collector isn't going to worry about the coin! LOL

Speedy