1884S Morgan in MS 6?

First of all, hello! This is the first post from a long time lurker, but a new member. My name is Michael and I am a coin and bullion enthusiast. I can't really claim to be a perfect grader of coins, but I know what I like when I see it.

I have a need for additional opinions regarding a Morgan Dollar. The outcome of opinions gathered will help me to determine whether I should mail off the coin to PCGS to get it graded, or whether I should keep it raw. I know about the great conversation about slabbed vs unslabbed, and I'm more in line with the "keep it raw" crowd. The only reason I would potentially send this coin off to PCGS is due to the wide range of value assigned to this particular coin. It is the 1884S Morgan. I feel it is in MS state, but I'm not certain whether it is 61, 62, or 63... yes, that wide!

Here's the photos: (sorry about the size, but I wanted to give you the best opportunity to see all of the details)




On the obverse, there are bag marks evident on the cheek and neck. Very slight lines in the right field which are about 1/4 inch long and run vertically behind the hat are present but don't show in the photo. Luster is great. Liberty's hair above the ear is weakly struck

On the reverse, the strike seems weak on the eagle's breast. I cannot see any scratches which would indicate wear, but the luster is dimmer there. Other than these features, the coin seems great.

If you think there is anything else that I should be aware of, please let me know. Does the toning seem authentic to you?

This is a collection coin. I have serious doubts whether it will be sold any time in the near future. But if it is to be sold, I'd like to have a 3rd party grade the coin, and PCGS seems to me to be the most consistent and recognized. These are my opinions, and I'm sure that not everyone agrees.

So, how would you grade this coin?

In advance, thank you very much for your help, time, and opinion.

Kind Regards,

Michael

 

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Hi Michael. Welcome to posting.

Of course, it's always tough to tell from a photo, but I'm not convinced your coin is in uncirculated condition. The suspicious spot for me is the break in luster on the eagle breast and corresponding lack of feather detail there. The combination of these factors leads me to believe it's an AU55. There's also corresponding weakness in the hair above the ear on the obverse.

Now, a lack of detail could also mean a weakly struck coin, but S mints are usually well struck for this year, and the break in luster on the eagle breast is a tell.

Not to worry. It's still a nice coin. But let some of the other experts chime in. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong.

Once again, welcome.

Steve

 

Hi Michael, and welcome to the forum. I also think it is circulated. Because of the huge difference in value between the uncirculated and AU, many AU 84-S get labeled MS. The photos are very nice, but also head on, with the glare/luster, it is hard to see wear point and surface details. I have had 3 of these, marked as MS, come back Au55 ( big coin world advertiser, AU58, AU58 ( last 2 from Morgan dealers), but since the price jump is so large, and PCGS and others have a guarantee policy, they seem especially tight on these.

Jim

 

Welcome to CT.
I would tend to think it is not uncirculated for reasons stated, however the toning on it is very nice, and doesn't appear to have been cleaned, so it will still hold some value. I am not a professional grader, so take my opinion for what it is worth.
Good Luck,
John

 

Welcome to the forum Michael! It's hard to tell from the pics but, I agree with the others, the coin appears to be AU.

 

You might try putting the lighting at a lower angle, or tilting the coin a little so we can see the surfaces a little better.

Jim

 

Yes I agree it is always tough to grade from pictures especially when the picture is straight on and the light is directed right at it. Nice coin overall and like Raider stated might be able to get a better look at it if you.

 

more pictures

Here's some close-ups. I tried to get close up to the coin and changed to indrect lighting, but I think my attempt was poor. When I look at the coin with my 10X loupe and I look at these pictures, I do not see the same thing. But anyways, here's the photos:






People who have seen it in hand have said that it should grade MS 61 tops, but a sure thing of MS 60... now, they are not pros, but collectors that have been in the hobby for a long time. I don't think they would say "MS" to make me feel good. But I know they don't work for PCGS, either.

 

I can't tell from the images whether the coin is uncirculated or not. That and the fact that there is a big price disparity between an AU and an Unc. makes me think that it should be submitted for grading.

 

IMO it's still hard to tell from the pics. The white balance seems off on the pics. Also besides the two hits on the neck and cheek, I don't see any other marks, which would lead me to believe it's AU. The 84 S usually has an average strike, so if it is MS, it's a very weak strike.

 

It certainly is worth the price of submission to find out. Best of luck on it.

Jim

 

Welcome to the Forum.
I agree - send it off to PGCS and ....
Let us know how it comes back:bigeyes::bigeyes:

 

I agree with GD. This coin looks AU to me at first glance. The 1884-S isn't typically this poorly struck. It's not the best struck date, but this is worse than most. One would have to look at it in hand to be sure, but my guess is this coin has some wear. I'd say AU but would still have it slabbed.

 

Looks AU to me as well.

 

I tend to go with the AU crowd , but you can never be sure by pictures , She's a beautiful coin that should be graded by one of the top TPGs . And from what I hear these rarer date coins sometimes get bumped up a point . JMO
rzage

 

Thank you very much for all the great feedback, folks! This forum is fantastic.

Prior to this coin, I have always thought about sending off some of my nice coins to PCGS, but was a bit reluctant because once it is in the holder, then you have to look at it through the plastic forever. But the fact that it's condition is authenticated can be a real bonus if times ever get tough and the coin needs to be sold. I hope that time never comes, but I think that I will go with the concensus here that the coin should be sent off.

Since I never wanted to get anything graded in the past, I was never a member of PCGS... now I am. When the packet comes in the mail, I'll be sending this coin to them for grading. I might send in some others as well. I have an extra 1931 S wheat cent, and a few other keys/semi-keys that would be better off in holders.

Again, thanks so much for the consideration. I'll be sure to update everyone on the outcome.

 

Looking forward to seeing the results. It would seem a 30-day wait period after they receive the coin is common so don't forget about us here.

 

Wow, I didn't realize how wide a price spread there is on this coin. My bet is AU55, but at this level, even 1 point differences can make a large price difference.

I highly recommend sending this coin to PCGS for certification.

 

I am not convinced what others are seeing as wear/break in luster is not due to camera angle or strike. In other words, I can't tell for sure that it is AU. The coin looks washed out (dull luster), but again this may be a camera issue and is something that would have to be judged in hand. It certainly seems worth submitting, given the potential price of an uncirculated 1884-S although PCGS will likely look at it long and hard before giving it an MS grade.

And if you do submit, please let us know how it turns out so we can all learn. Welcome!