Lucius Saufeius - Highly Disappointed ☹️

I take a long time, sometimes years to pull the trigger on a coin until I find that one example that just does it for me. I don't sell to upgrade ... I just pull the trigger when I see the one.

I have been looking for the most ideal (for my money) example of a Roman Republic coin issued under Lucius Saufeius. I recently found that coin and pulled the trigger, paid immediately and rejoiced as I have been looking for this exact coin as I have written, and researched (deep dive) Lucius Saufeius and wanted this fine example of his handy work.



I get an email today saying the order was cancelled, the reason being was that the coin (that did not say it was sold) was already sold. The coun was for sale, I purchased it, paid for it....then it is yanked away. I am so disappointed. I asked them to to fulfill my order as the coin was not marked as sold when I bought it but I am sure they will not do this.

Thought I would just come and complain because I am just so damn disappointed.

If anyone comes across a comparative example please do let me know.

 

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I looked on MA Shops and there were no matches.
https://www.ma-shops.com/shops/sear...2&catid=6&submitBtn=Search&lang=en&PHPSESSID=

 

Tough break ! The same thing has happened to me more than once....

 

I can accept incompetent business practices and accidents caused by listing coins in several places and not deleting all when sold BUT not when I suspect something that I consider dishonest like cancelling your sale because someone called the next day and offered more. Much of the hobby is based on keeping your word. In the old days, people sealed a deal with a handshake. Today are we to allow anything and everything? Years ago (30?), I bought a coin by phone reservation and mailed check. In those days phone reservations were accepted pending arrival of a check in a certain number of days. They returned my check a week later. After that, I got a note that the 'second' buyer (a friend and insider of theirs) told them that they should send the coin to me. That person was playing by what I call the 'old rules'. The dealer did not then value my little business which they lost even though I returned my check and got the coin. I still hold that incident against that seller and avoid looking at his material. The old saying was that it takes a thousand Atta-boys to erase one Aw-shucks.

 

I regret hearing that, @Cachecoins ! I have only had this a few times, of which was one I REALLY wanted, just like your situation. It is very frustrating.

agreed with @dougsmit ... Handshakes - that is a BOND of TRUST, and atta-boy / Aw-Shucks has been my mantras in my career and hobbies.

I have the same coin, but acquired under better circumstances.


RR L Saufeius 152 BCE AR Denarius Roma Biga Sear 83 Craw 204-1

 

My response has little to do with coins. Dougsmit's response about sealing a deal with a handshake rings a bell with me. I, too, used to and still follow the maxim that "a man's word is his bond". If you say that you will do something, you do it. Right now I am holding two coins for a friend that I said I would hold for him after he saw and examined them. He very much wanted them but was a bit short on cash. Would i hold them for him for a month or so? That was back in the late winter of 2020 and he's more short of cash now that he ever was with his business taking a big hit with the pandemic. We still talk on the phone and he asks if I still have those two coins and am I still holding them for him. Of course I am. I said I would and I will continue to do so. What he does not know is that later on I discovered I had way underpriced the two coins (they are in an area I really don't know a great deal about-Indo Bactrian) and could have sold them for twice the price we had agreed on. We will both be getting our vaccine shots in a few weeks and will meet up again and I will have his coins, at the original price agreed upon. Why? Because I had said that I would and that's enough for me, and for him, too.

 

I cannot know and, like lordmarcovan said, I probably never will know the reason.
That is why I did not come here to name names as much as express my extreme disappointment. Even if it was listed somewhere else as well...and happen to sell there before I bought it...that is bad form.

I must admit I could not help but think someone offered more. This is not an auction, it had a set price and I did not haggle but bought and and paid for it full price. I don't want the money back back, I want the coin.

I guess I also wanted to let it be known that I am looking for a comparable piece so if you see one i hope you keep me in mind. I do believe I will probably not do business with that seller again though. Left a bad taste.

 

That was the first thing I did was go there to see if it was listed there

 

I understand disappointment, but this is much ado about nothing. Unfortunately, mistakes happen and it seems that this coin was already sold. The dealer might list on several different venues and it sold on another and and the dealer forgot to delete it. That is why most have statements in their terms like this -- "Title does not pass until payment is made in full and the order is shipped. However, I reserve the right to refund your money if there is an error in the listing, the coin has already been sold, or is otherwise not available."

 

I expected such a response and you are probably right but it is a poor way to do business imo. I know there is nothing I can do but resume my search. It would be one thing if I lost the coin to a higher bidder in an auction but to search for so long...find the right one...pay for it...then be told the next day that the order is cancelled just leaves a bad taste. I am just whining and moaning. But thanks for letting me know it's nothing

 

I really hated it the one time that happened to me, a few months ago -- kind of like the feeling a baby must have when candy is taken from its mouth, with a strong urge to react in a similar way! Even if the explanation is usually incompetence (failure to remove the listing after the coin was sold, either on that or another website), rather than dishonesty (selling the coin to someone else after it was sold to you, presumably for a higher price).

In my case, I had this denarius of Rubrius Dossenus my watch list at MA-Shops for several weeks. I really liked it because it was the only example I had seen that clearly shows that there's a wolf's head protruding from the back of the cart. But I hesitated to buy it because the gray patina looked somewhat artificial (some of you will recognize the dealer from the coin's appearance, since his coins typically look like that).



Finally, I decided to buy it, and went ahead and paid for it. A few hours later, the dealer (in Europe) informed me that the coin had "just" been sold right before I bought it, and refunded my money. I had no reason to believe that there was anything more than incompetence involved, although it seemed like quite a coincidence that the coin would sit there in my watch list for weeks, untouched, but that someone else would finally decide to buy it right before I did. Whatever the explanation, I was very disappointed, since even though I hesitated to buy it, once I made the decision I really wanted it -- especially after I knew I couldn't have it! And I haven't seen an example since that shows that much detail on the reverse.

 

The wolf's head is remarkable! Apparently not mentioned in Crawford, Grueber, or Babelon. Is that an original observation of your own?

 

As far as I know. I've never seen it, or seen it mentioned, before.

 

So you have never seen it on any other specimen either?

 

I just checked my new copy of the RBW Collection of Roman Republican Coins, and it's neither visible on the three examples of the coin, nor mentioned in the descriptions. See RBW 1322-1324.

 

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No -- when I saw that one, I looked rather extensively, but couldn't find another with the wolf clearly showing like that, although there were some with "something" protruding from the back that might conceivably be interpreted as a wolf's head if you knew that's what you were looking for.

So I regret even more not buying the coin when I had the chance!

 

It would be worthwhile to compare all those specimens with "something" at the back. How many rev. dies are involved? Also are there many specimens which definitely don't show a wolf's head there? One wants to be sure that a wolf's head was really intended.

 

One problem is that on many examples, that part of the design is entirely, or almost entirely, off the flan, so it's impossible to tell what was intended.