Austrian Thaler & Netherlands Silver Rider

Hi Guys, newbie here and would appreciate your help in finding out whether these two coins are genuine or not.

1) The first is an Austrian silver Thaler, dated 1721, Carolus VI.
It is around 42mm in diameter, and as per my digital scale, it weighs
29.59 grams.

2) This other coin is a Netherlands Silver Rider, 1791. It is around 40mm
in diameter, and weighs in at 32.47 grams on my digital scale.

Attached are pics of the obverse and reverse for your consideration.

Any help and further infor you can extend will be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Sounds a little off, I found this one that sold on ebay for $430.00 and as you can see the weight and size are a little off.
1721 Charles VI. Large Silver Thaler. Hall Mint. VF-XF!Wonderful, rare, broad and heavy coin. 44mm / 28.1gm
I myself bought a Hamburg 5 mark and the weight was only 22.5 grams and it should have been 27.77 grams nice looking coin but its still a fake.
Bob​

 

My problem with coin #1 is that from browsing around cyberspace, I get conflicting specs about the coin.

One site says it weighs 29 grams. You yourself gave a weight of 28.1 grams, while I got 29.59 grams on my scale. I asked someone about it and he believes it should weigh 1 troy oz = 31.1 grams if it is authentic.

As for the diameter, one site lists it at 41mm while you gave 44mm. My own measurement of 42mm was done using a regular ruler so it is not as accurate as I'd like it to be.

There are really few sites which lists the specifications of coin #1, that's why I'm so conflicted about its genuineness. Even the standard catalog on world coins have not much to say about it in terms of weight, diameter, % metal composition, etc.

There's just too much of a variation in the data I got for coin #1 if you ask me, so I hope someone here with good knowledge about it can settle the issue for me once and for all.

As for coin #2, though, I've gotten better results especially on the weight side, so I'm at least more confident of its authenticity, but still not 100% assured. So I'd really appreciate any information anyone can share.

Again thanks.

DJ

 

I'll be honest - both of them look too modern to me and therefore fake. I'm sure GDJMSP will know something. Hope this isn't the case for you.

 

Thanks for chiming in guys and appreciate the collective knowledge.

I was finally able to show both coins to 2 local experts here in my neck of the woods, and their verdicts are:

1) Coin 1 (thaler) is 100% fake.
2) Coin 2 (ducaton) is genuine, but with a repaired hole somewhere on the 12 o clock position on the reverse.

So back went both coins to the dealer who, truth be told, was not happy about the return. He grudgingly refunded what I paid for it. Obviously, he does not think highly of me as a customer, so he's definitely not getting any more future business from me. End of story.

Lessons learned:

1) Coin collecting hobby is littered with land mines of counterfiets and fraud, and even the most recommended / trusted dealer is NOT immune to getting scammed.

2) Transact only with reputable dealers / sellers who won't hesitate to accept returns. Better yet, establish a good relationship with a reputable seller / dealer.

3) Aside from doing your own due diligence, it literally pays to be able to harness the experience and knowledge of hobbyists who have been there to coin collecting hell and back, and who are ready and willing to share such knowledge and experience.

4) The support of the local coin collecting community is also valuable in one's learning curve because pictures are not 100% accurate gauges of a coin's authenticity.

Thanks again. I think I'll stick to modern coins for the time being.