I intially was going to post this as a reply under his thread. But it got so long and I realized it had some helpful information so I decided to make a thread on it. I'll be updating it perotically for more examples BNBAnalytics and anyone else who is interested in learning more about coins, I saw your post about you wondering why NGC/PCGS would grade a cleaned coin. The answer is, if a coin is very old, l (since gold is soft it is given more leeway in grading, but that's another story), or very rare, sometimes a grading service will overlook a LIGHT cleaning. Cleaning can be caused by many different things. There is when a coin is WHIZZED, which is where someone takes a brush on a dermal tool and goes over the coin with it. It is caued whizzed because of the sound it makes when it is being done. Whizzed coins have a very paticular look. Coins can be 'dipped', which is they are put into a solution of acid and this removes the layer of oxidation on the coin. There is proper dipping and un-proper dipping, a properly dipped coin can be a good thing in certain cases. Coins can also be cleaned simply from a wipe of a soft cloth. I remember when I was in a coin show in elks lodge in scottsdale, there was a jewerly dealer there (He dealed more in jewerly than coins), who had a raw 20 dollar gold piece and I saw him use a soft cloth (the kind used to clean eye glasses) and rub it over the coin. I asked him why he was doing that and he said to make it 'shiny', believe it or not, this causes very small hairlines on the coin, which is like small scratches. This can also be caused from plastic non PVC flips, since they are harder than the PVC flips, or from albums. Additionally hairlines can just be caused from circulation, proof coins are very suspectable to hairlines because of their method of manufacture. Generally coins that have been cleaned will show hairlines that are concentraited and uniform (going in one direction). Coins CAN have hairlines from circulation, case in point my classic head $2.50, it has hairlines on it , but it is so minor, I cannot even see them under a glass. I have seen them in photo's though, and it seems most likely they were from circulation or someone lightly wiped the coin, needless to say it is so minor that NGC certified it as well as CAC. I had my experienced friend dennis look at it and he couldn't find the hairlines either, so its minor. It is also known that back in the 1800's and early 1900's cleaning was considered acceptable by collectors. In fact, in the early 1900 album for lincoln cents, I remember reading the instructions, it said to use a pencil eraser to 'shine up' the coins if they were dull! What an amazing transformation in our hobby. Early gold is a great example (pre 1834) of coins that have minor cleanings or scratches and still being certified. Since it's so old (over 200 years) it is simply giving more leeway and is called 'market acceptable' Besides hairlines, you can tell a coin has been cleaned as it usually is missing a patina, is lighter in color and has a 'halo' effect sometimes around the stars where it didn't get polished. Do not confuse this with a coin that is semi prooflike! Coins that are worn that may have been fully PL once will show semi PL reflectiveness in the protected areas of the coins, such as the stars and the devices. This also happens sometimes with coins that have been cleaned, so you have to be able to tell the difference between the two. Here is one of my coins, that has not been cleaned, yet has semi PL surfaces (and if you didn't see it in hand it may look cleaned because of the 'halo" effect, but it's not) This coin has the 'halo' effect around the stars that many cleaned coins have. However, because of it's patina, it is original. The halo effect is just how the coin was made, with almost new dies. Here is a coin that has been polished lightly, notice the halo effect around the stars on the areas that didn't get polished. This can mimic semi PL surfaces if you don't know what to look for...this leaves small hairlines. Here is an image of a coin that is polished and has the 'halo' effect around the stars I was talking about. This coin has been cleaned, and is not original. Yet it has the same 'halo' effect as some original coins can have , so have to becareful. Notice the 'shiny' washed out apperance. I remember when I took my ANA grading class, we looked at certified coins. One was a 20 dollar double eagle. I saw it and immediately thought it looked fully PL. But it was polished! The other dealers spotted this as a problem coin, and indeed it was. Note: As a die becomes more PL, or proof, the less luster it has. Semi PL coins will be somewhat reflective, yet still have some cartwheel luster. ( a small amount) Die wear's characteristics on luster goes as follows: PL = new die w/o evidence of metal flow semi PL = new die beginning to wear (some cartwheel luster) frosty = die w/notable flow lines, carthweel effect satin = die with little evidence of metal flow (LDS=Late die state. These are often found on early saints, such as the 1908 no motto, later saints are often have more frosty luster I think) flat = die w/o flow lines or worn die The illustration shows the mechanism by which "ridges" or "crests" can be produced by whizzing. Source:http://mendosus.com/whizzing/whiz-concl.html Here is a saint with 'satiny' luster, this coin has been confirmed to be a LDS. (Late die state). The early saints often had more satiny luster than the bright, lustrous flashing luster later dates had. Here is a saint that has the 'flashy' 'lustrous' luster, an earlier die state: Source: http://coinauctionshelp.com/page22.html Here is an example of a coin that has been dipped, notice the bright shiny surfaces: Here is a coin that has been cleaned in the past but has retoned over the years. You can usually tell it was once cleaned because of the slight shiny luster under the toning. Here's an example of a whizzed silver dollar. Bear in mind not all whizzed coins are obvious, sometimes whizzed coins will appear smooth and the hairlines can only be seen under magnification.
This is awesome, you basically made a post helping me and others out. Sweet! You rock, Penny lady! I am going to read this 4 times, I am on my first, so I get a grasp of what you mean.
I'm not penny lady, but you're welcome. I hope this helps others. BNBAnalytics what is your name? I think its great that you want to invest with more money at such a young age. I'm 21 myself, yet I seem to spend all of my money and not invest it. At least I'm spending it on gold partly eh? My grandpa once said to take 10% of every paycheck and put it into savings, by the time you're retired you'll have alot of money. BNBAnalytics I think its important you get a book such as "PCGS guide to grading and counterfeit detection." It talks in great length how to spot problem coins, counterfeits and tells you how to grade! Its a great book! Here's where you can buy it: http://www.amazon.com/Official-Guide-Grading-Counterfeit-Detection/dp/0375720502 Enjoy!:thumb:
Sorry lol my gaffe. I saw Penny's ad and thought it was your sig. Anyway, I'm Jarett or Jay for short. Nice to meet you. Just ordered the book as well as David Bower's Guide to Investing one as well.(Once had Q's but lost it)
Wow, I'm glad i helped someone. Even if just 1 person finds it helpful, that's all that matters.:thumb:
At this point 85 people have read your post. I think it is more appreciated than you might think. Very best regards, collect89
Great thread Gold CoinLover , well written it will help a lot of people , It deserves a TOTW nomination which I have given thanks . rzage
