As Ive said before: I dont fully accept the slogan "Buy the coin, not the slab." The dealers and collectors both seem to have a majority agreement that PCGS and NGC slabs give accurate grades. The other slabs are crap. I bought some NTC slabs: Its a fairly new start-up grading service out of boca raton florida, and the South Florida dealers hate the NTC slabs. OVER-grades galore, and one dealer says the NTC slabs sit in his inventory for years. If you send any lower-tier slabs to PCGS for re-grading, dont pay PCGS the extra money to break the slab. Get a Swiss-Army knife, (Or an imitation "swiss army" knife.) STEP 1: use the bottle-opener to crack the top edges off of the top of the slab. Step 2: Use the big knife, and slide it inside the slab and pry the two halves of the slab away from each other. TIP: do this over a pillow, so the coin falls on something soft. This my friends is how you break open a slab. Now you can send it for the re-grade. Its an easy process for breaking a slab, but at the same time, it does enough destruction, that you wont be able to slip another coin in the holder, if you get such a sleazy idea in your head.
I have seen NTC slabs with grades I would agree with and some I would disagree with... That doesn't go along with the rest of your post... As for NGC and PCGS...yes they give good grades but they do mess-up too...just like everyone of us....nobody is perfect. Speedy
okay yeah, they mess up too, but thats not the point. The hobby has a lot of trust in the PCGS slabs,much more so than any other grading company.
And when you say "doesnt go along with the rest of your post," what are you talking about? What ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? You took a partial phrase out of context. The entire sentence I wrote was I DONT FULLY ACCEPT the slogan "Buy the coin, not the slab."
Every slab that arrives at this house is cracked, none of my coins are slabbed and that's the way it's going to stay. I like to see the edges thank you very much, so i can appreciate the different styles of milling/reeding.
Before accepting or not accepting the comment - buy the coin not the slab - one should at least understand what it means. It's really quite simple - it means don't pay more than the coin is worth. Say there are two Morgan dollars, of the same date & mint, at your local dealer's or a show in a PCGS, NGC or ANACS slabs graded MS65 and the book price for this coin in 65 is $250. As you say, many people trust these companies and would simply pay for the coin based on the grade on the slab. That is buying the slab. But if the collector examines the coins before agreeing to buy one and determines that in his opinion the one coin is not really worthy of the grade MS65 and that it should instead be graded MS64, a coin with a price of $175, then he would be foolish to pay MS65 value for it. But, in the opinion of the collector, the other coin is indeed worthy of the MS65 grade. He therefore agrees to buy this coin instead of the other one. That is buying the coin, not the slab. In other words, not only should you not trust the opinion of the lower tier grading companies, you shouldn't place blind faith, when it comes to grade, in the opinion of ANY of the grading companies. And that includes NGC, PCGS and ANACS. They all make mistakes - they all overgrade & undergrade. You need to know how to grade for yourself so that you can judge the performance & accuracy of the grades assigned by the grading companies - all of them. For yes there are times when you can find a coin that is properly graded in any slab. They may be few and far between, but if you can properly grade for yourself, then you may just find a gem for a good price. That is buying the coin and not the slab as well. It goes both ways.
I have found that NGC and PCGS are the best coins to buy in slabs, I have purchased other slabs ( PCI ) but have gotten good deals on them, i can usually bring the dealer down to purchasing the coins at 1 or ( in extreme cases ) 2 points under what the slab is marked. I still need to crack open a proof half dime that i have in a PCI slab and send it into NGC. as far as slabs go i am agnostic, i have a hefty collection of both slabs and raw coins. I plan on sending in some of my choice world gold and proofs in soon. I find the holder to be very convenient for storage and protection. to each his own, once you buy the coin its yours to do with what you want!
Was it this year or last that PCGS lost the PNG nomination...I would say that it has made many people lose trust in PCGS...maybe I'm wrong...but I would say that it was a sad day for PCGS when they learned that NGC had gotten the PNG nomination and they didn't. Speedy
OK, this has promted a question, that would be better suited in another thread as I don't want 2 get this thread off subject? LINK
The PNG nomination is a topic Im not familiar with. Regarding Reeding and milling, if you like reeding and milling, get into pocket watch collecting. The antique pocket watch cases had some beautiful reeding around the center rim. Maybe nicks in the reeding are the hairline difference between grades. I still say too many grades. Anybody out there knowledgeable on European coins? The Europeans Im told, have three grades.
The PNG stands for The Professional Numismatists Guild Here is their website http://www.pngdealers.com/Public/Index.cfm?CFID=847957&CFTOKEN=68065602 As for the 3 grades...we didn't always have the grades we have now....I think I"m right when I say we had-- Good Fine Very Fine Uncirculated Proof I may have one of them wrong.... Speedy
In a way yes. Typically the term simply means looking through a group of coins and picking out the best examples. It can also be used when talking about searching for varieties.
The use of the PNG seal on the slab, be it NGC, PCGS or anybody else is pretty much meaningless. It is given to the highest bidder. In other words - the one who PAYS the most to be able to use it.
Well not exactly. Typically the Europeans use the same grades we do - but they may apply them with a different set of standards than we do. Fot just like it is here in the US, there is no one established set of standards used in the various countries or even with any single country. They all use their own criteria to establish the grades. So what in one country may be considered as XF - in another it may be considered VF. The same goes for those people doing the actual grading. Have 3 different people grade the same coin - you may get 3 different grades. In a nutshell the Europeans use the following grades - P - Poor G - Good VG - Very Good F - Fine VF - Very Fine XF or EF - Extra Fine Unc - Uncirculated FDC - Fleur De Coin or Gem Uncirculated Of course they then also add the qualifiers, About/Almost, Choice etc. whichs adds even more grades. For just like here in the US, the Europeans have found that the letter grades are not sufficient to accurately describe a coin. And as time goes on - more and more Europeans are accepting slabbed coins graded by NGC, PCGS etc. And many of the European dealers now list their coins for sale with comparable American number grades right along side the letter grades they use.
<<As for NGC and PCGS...yes they give good grades but they do mess-up too...just like everyone of us....nobody is perfect.>> That pretty much sums up why a novice like me would rather avoid the mighty slab altogether. We're not perfect but we're not splitting hairs over MS65 or MS66 or whatever, either. It seems that if the standard is such that we dare not drag a cloth across a coin lest we degrade our coin(investment) in a quantifiable(and shameful) manner, then I don't think it is too much to expect the "Grading Authorities" to be above reproach. To be even more dramatic, if we can't be expected to touch or breathe on an unc without fear of degrading the coin, why can't we expect the "Grading Authorities" to be perfect? I am sure I'm missing something and my comments simplistic, but I am a newbie.
As a collector who has damaged coins learning what to do and what not to do I suggest to new collector to buy both raw and slabs...even though the grading Co. aren't 100% they are great to many new collector, its better than they can grade...so I suggest that new collector buy grading books and work on their grading but since they are still new to it buy slabbed coins from the tor 4 PCGS/NGC/ANACS/ICG so they don't get jipped while learning grading. Speedy
Very true. Good advice. I have Photograde. No slabs yet, but I am sure I have some overgraded raw coins somewhere FB
LETSBUYCOINS....have you ever used carfacts.com to buy a car? They are one of the best rated services for learning about the history of used cars before purchasing one. They have been nailed for making major mistakes, but all in all, they are pretty well trusted. Would you buy a car based soley on a carfacts report? Or would you want to test drive it and have your mechanic check it out first? Its the same deal with graded coins. Over all, the top 3 graders do well, but I still would buy a slabbed coin without taking it for a "test drive".
