Modern vs. Ancient!!

Did not know exactly where to put this so I posted it here, but I had an interesting thought this morning while browsing thru a coin magazine. Why is it that you can buy a coin that dates between 335-355 A.D for lets say $40.00 and they are getting $100.00 for a 2001-S SAC.
It seems strange to me that coins this old would not bring a bigger price. I am sure this has been covered many times here at coin talk but I would love to here others thoughts.
P.S did I spell ancient right? Was thinking of the "I" before "E" except after "C" rule bu it didn't look right to me.:desk::desk:

 

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I agree with GDJMSP.
Nothing really to add to that answer.

 

ditto with Doug.

Ancient coins around the area mentioned in the OP are extremely common. The $40 is probably overpriced, unless it is of a rarer mint.


stainless

 

Sure wpuld love to get a perfectly struck MS-70 gold coin of Alexander the Great (circa325 BC) Just Dreaming. Traci

 

well said doug

 

Doug is right again! As always...

 

I bet if you start a national advertising campain for ancient coins you might get the prices to come up a little.

Have to agree with the others, the supply is greater than the demand.

Heck look at the 2009 cents, $25 for a roll of new cents is ridiculous.

 

Darn. Doug beat me to it. Age doesn't matter. Its supply and demand.

 

Most collectors of ancients know well that age has nothing to do with price but a few still labor under the mistaken idea that rarity has more importance than it does. There are at least a million different varieties of ancient coins. Of these several are known from only one surviving example but there is nothing like the accurate count of mintage and surviving percentage seen with modern coins so it is always possible that another example of the type will turn up. Every time a shovel hits dirt in some parts of the world we risk the existing supply of some rare coin going up. Since no one person has a complete set of ancient coins and no serious collector is trying to form one, it is quite possible for a very rare item to sell for the nuisance value or lowest price a dealer sells any coin for (varies from a dollar to several hundred depending on the dealer). The old joke tells of a minor coin variety known to exist in only three examples failing to sell because there were only two people who cared and they each had one.

The coins sold for $20 to $40 hyped as rare and valuable by mass marketers tend to be those available by the bucket for one to a few dollars. If you decide to collect ancients, I suggest buying them from a specialty dealer (I'm not a dealer of any kind) who knows the difference between a $1 coin and a $40 one.

 

There are ancients that go for big bucks just take a few moments to check out some of the big auction houses, but for the most part the run of the mill stuff can be picked up for a reasonable price. I have a few rare Celtic coins (3 to 5 known examples) but they thankfuly did not cost me a fortune LOL. One of the joy's of ancients is the diversity available, just look at Roman coins and the number of mints that produced them across the known world
Oh and I quite agree with Doug it is demand for a coin that drives up the price much more than the rarity of the piece

 

this is another reason here. On the whole, ancients dont bother with MS-whatever grading. So people dont hike prices hundreds of dollars because some TPG said its an MS65 instead of an MS64. Many dealers dont even use the more traditional grading system...you simply judge for yourself if the price fits the eye appeal, rarity, and quality.

US and Russian coin prices are out of control because of what is to me, obvious reasons. I always marvel that someone might spend something like 200 USD for a penny that was pulled from circulation, still able to be spent...slabbed up, graded and that huge price justified in some way....while the Ancient Roman As I use as my picture....2000 years old almost, was not much more than that...to each his own I guess.

Dont worry, prices for ancients are and have been on the rise...it wont be long until you are paying 30 USD for some rough old LRB.

 

Hold on to your shorts!

I agree with Doug!

Egad, I bet you never expected that!

But, he is right.

Simple supply & demand.

Collectors demand the modern 'junk' over the ancient stuff.

Then again, I collect US coins, which is all modern (even from the 18th century) compared to the Roman & Greek coins.

So, who am I to say anything.

 

Already well said. Coins as well as most valuabel items are mostly due to popularity. A 57 Chevy is not rare but sure is popular so it is excessively valuable. Remember Beanie Babies? Some WERE worth several hundred dollars due to popularity. Of course now there is NO popularity in those so the prices are only a few dollars if that. With coins the same thing. The more popular a coin or coins are the higher the prices. If you could highly publicize a 1999 Lincoln Cent as the thing to have, it would suddenly shoot up in value.

 

Its just not that simple IMO. popularity is a part of it of course, rarity is even bigger. An Aureus of Hadrian isn't popular, lots of people aren't clamoring to get one...but good examples sell for 15,000 USD. Now if you had it slabbed and graded...that price will go up (in some peoples mind) hundreds if not possibly thousands more!! This holds true even more with modern coins. Even with notgeld which are often very cheap...rare examples can sell for thousands.

Price is not simply dictated by demand. Now when you see a modern US penny selling for hundreds of dollars, slabbed with an high MS grade...a person can justify bumping the price way up and people buy into this so it works...that's a whole different deal and artificial high prices are justified for all the usual reason...but a superb Ancient Roman aureus will ALWAYS be very expensive...regardless of high or low demand...The high level of artistry, the history, ancient gold...these are all reasons why even if there are only 100 ancient collectors...that Aureus will still be very expensive.

All the same, even with prices rising, I believe pricing for ancients make a HELL of a lot more sense than pricing for US and Russian coins. If its common and in bad shape...its cheap. If its common and in good shape...it a bit more. If its rare and in bad shape...its even more...if its rare and in good shape...its going to be expensive....simple. No need to nitpick over MS-64 pricing as opposed to MS-65 pricing...this is what drives coin pricing in some markets.

I think the REAL question is why a penny, slabbed and graded...with mintage in the millions...would ever be worth more than a Roman As, Sestertius, or Denarius....certainly the higher demand plays into it but I think it goes beyond demand. Like someone mentioned...50 cents worth of pennies being minted this year...in the millions, which I find in circulation in FDC condition would ever sell for 25 USD a roll...brand new pennies selling for 50 cents a pop!!

 

certainly you can...most people don't even know what an Aureus is let alone are looking to buy one but their price is often in the 5 digits, far far far more expensive than the gold value. Rare Late Roman Bronzes, Denarius, etc... that might look like a 5 dollar common coin, if they are rare...can fetch astronomical prices and again...a good majority of coin collectors wouldnt know what the coin is, let alone that it is rare...but they still get high price tags on rarity alone. A rare Eid Mar (a coin most people have no clue about) is worth 6 figures if not 7...there arent a lot of people out there who know what it is let alone looking to buy one but all the same, on rarity alone, they are probably one of the most expensive coins.

From my experience you can almost count notgeld collectors on one hand but there are still rare examples of those usually cheap coins on sale with a price tag in the thousands.

Like I said, its not that simple. Demand certainly plays a big part, as does rarity and the way people collect and the type of coin you are collecting and how that group of collectors approach the hobby.

I just saw a case on a forum the other day where a coin probably not worth much more that 10 was selling for something like 60 dollars because it was slabbed with a high grade and had a sticker on it that had a price like 80 dollars...so people bought a 10 dollar coin for 60 thinking they got a great slabbed and grade 80 dolalr coin for 60!!

To simply say demand is everything is a gross simplification IMO. Then again, I who am I to disagree with YOU.

 

A thing to remember - Most colectors wouldn't know what an Aureus is. However, it is wanted amongst the people who DO know what it is.


stainless

 

But they are rare and even out of the smaller number of collector who collect ancients, more of them will never be in the market to buy it. the rarity alone (and quality) dictate the price more than demand in that case. even if there were just 4 or as many as 400 people in the world looking to buy an aureus, they would still be extremely expensive on rarity and quality.

now, as illustrated here, demand alone CAN set the price. I minted 100 coins to commemorate my daughters birth...100 coins is rather rare...but no one will want one thus there will be no demand for them...if it was some outstanding work of art, maybe people WOULD want them and the demand would go up...that demand was caused by the artistry and quality. demand DOES have a big part to play but the demand is set by other factors which are more important than just saying 'its in demand' WHY is it in demand... its not as simple as just demand=price...There are many different factors affecting a coins price.