What is in the photograph of this PF69 UC Ike? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-S-Eis...618084?hash=item3b585de1a4:g:xcsAAOSw0QlgPZwY
I have 3 "brown Box" Ikes that show issues like this. Here is a blurb from an article about them. It appears not to effect grading judging from the coin you posted. Many Brown Ikes which have resided in the original packaging will exhibit toning or discoloration. Most times, this appears as an unattractive, haziness or uneven milky tones. Sometimes the coins do exhibit attractive toning, which can occur with multiple colors or a bull’s eye pattern.
As a collector, though, what is the point of an ultra-cameo designation with a milky tone streaking the face.
Toning doesnt affect a UC designation. The white haze is just the beginning of toning forming. NGC for while in the early 2000s was using a W designation for "white" coins, coins without toning but they dropped that idea. It's a bad picture of the toning, but it's a good picture to show what is toning on the coin. Cameo and ultra cameo are an opinion of the contrast between the fields and the devices, it's not a critique on how mirorored or free of toning it is. That all said, cameo and deep cameo designations are opinions. If your opinion is it can't be a cameo or deep cameo because of the toning... what if it was dipped? Would it then become a cameo or deep cameo? If it would then, why is the toning preventing the designation?
I remember about 6 years ago seeing this hazy appearance on a proof coin of my Father in Law. I inherited his collection a little over a year ago. Seeing this thread I took a look at it and it has started to take on color where the haze was, top right. All marks are on the plastic Sterling Silver Proof
Yes. I have a silver proofset from 2001 that did this. Started with a white haze I noticed in 2006 and has progressed to yellows, burgandy to red and a touch of blue now. It's the beginnings of toning when it's white and not refracting colors because it's not thick enough yet to produce colors where the refraction is right (I think refracting is the right term for it). Also it could just be the angle the ike is on and the lighting and it could be going yellow and just positioned to where the color doesn't show. Toning is also subjective. People have their opinions on it. But then we get off the topic... which is, does toning disqualify a proof coin from ultra cameo? The answer is, no as a strict rule it shouldn't, but it would be a matter of opinion of the particular graders if a coin qualifies as ultra cameo, with or without toning to begin with. I'd say if you can remove the toning and there would be no question about it being ultra cameo then it should get the designation with the toning. Also likely the toning wasn't noticeable at the time of slabbing when the coin got the UC designation as it is now, still though it shouldnt necessarily preclude the coin from UC designation. It's why the phrase "buy the coin, not the holder" is so true. Maybe it's not something you like and you like toning free blast white proof coins. Toning might increase a price at auction or decrease it because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe you like toning and want to see how that ike turns out in another 20 years...
I totally agree. Some toning I like, some is just ugly to me. And, as you stated, it shouldn't detract from the fact that the designation should be for how distinct the contrast between the frosted devices and mirrorlike fields are.
That is what I initially thought, which is why I figured I would ask the experts how they feel about this coin and its premium designations.
My question on this stems from the term - mirror like field - you can't be mirror like if you can not view it through a tones milkie fog.
I saw this effect back in the 70's. I think it's very common on silver proof Ike's. I'm not sure but, I think had something to do with the blanks not being washed properly. I also know it will dip off but, may come back. You can find Ike's without that affect. I wouldn't buy one with it. Also seeing as the coin in question is in a slab I would say it was dipped before it was slabbed and the milk stain came back while in the slab. DON'T BUY ONER LIKE THAT.
As someone mentioned above, it is a brown box 40% silver proof Ike (removed from the OGP and graded), known to develop hazing/toning. I like them and have 3 or 4 in the OGP. My favorite 2 have the blue on the 72 and then the 74 with the bullseye or target toning.
I would have to agree with cplradar, even though I would strongly debate this with the third party graders. I have seen countless cameo and ultra cameo coins dating into the 1800's that exhibit 90% or more vivid toning and grading as such. Go figure. On the subject, I bought an NGC PF69 CAM, 1964 Kennedy sight unseen before the advent of the internet and quickly resold it for the same reason. Cloudy and very unattractive for the grade.
well, the fields need to be mirror like and the fristy devices frosty. milky white toning certainly affects that.
