1878 toned

what is this coin worth

 

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Sorry but toning is not natural it is far too spotty to be real.
at best $30.00 or what ever the melt price is.

 

Although I may be wrong, I disagree and believe that it is natural toning! I would wait until some more knowledgeable members (those that know more about Artificial and Natural toning) have time to chime in before accepting my or any other first assessments. I believe that the coin is AU-55 due to wear on Miss Liberty's hairlines, slight wear on the Eagle's breast and slight wear on the high spots on the leaves in the Wreath. In a good coin market environment, an AU-55 1878-P 7TF (Reverse of 1878) Morgan Silver Dollar should fetch anywhere from $45 to $60 but if the toning is all Natural, then it should fetch at least 30% to 40% more.

See edited pictures to brighten the pics. James...If these pictures are not more representative of the actual coin and colors, then please note it here in the forum

By the way, welcome to Coin Talk!

Edited to add: I just looked back at the pictures that I edited and posted and noticed that there appears to be some possible Die Clashing in front of Miss Liberty's neck, in the "V" below her' Hair Bun and below the Arrow Heads. LIBERTY also appears to be very thick and may be doubled as in a Doubled Die. If these are what they appear, then you have a Morgan VAM (Variety Morgan Silver Dolar) but which one, I have no clue!


Frank

 

I agree with Frank. When I first saw it I thought unnatural toning, but the more I look it looks legit. We need Lehigh on this one.

 

Yeah, I would bet that it spent a lot of years in one of those little brown or yellow envelopes that release some of the Sulphur that they contain when they degrade!


Frank

 

IMO the coin has been artitically toned, and with the wear I would say it's worth around $25.

 

looks unnatural to me

 

WOW!! Wat do you guys think makes this coin natural?

In my humbled opinion it is 100% artificial. I couldn't even call this a wild or monster toning just by looking at the color pattern and the way the toning film layers on the coin. Now, I am not a pro just a person who loves toned coins and seen a few. Good luck to yall.

Oh and yeah "let's see what Lehigh says about this one". :thumb:

 

Psychedelic mannnnnnn. Traci

 

That's the thing with AT and NT sometimes it's hard to tell , but on this one I'm leaning AT , Lehigh where are you ?
rzage

 

As we wait for Lehigh . Here's why I think this coin is AT.

First the coin is circulated, now toning can happen on circulated morgans but it's rare, especially toning like that. Next, the toning is not only on the obverse and reverse but also on the rim, which can be a sign of artificial toning, but of course not always. Also I don't see the shadow effect (not sure exactly what it's called), it can usually be seen on the stars and numbers of a naturally toned coin, I'll look for an example. IMO the color also just looks off too me, it's too bright and too strong. Finally the blotchy toning that I circled in the pic is usually a give away for AT.

 

If the color in the images is accurate, I believe that the coin is AT.

 

Lehigh, I hope you don't mind but I used the pic of the coin you have in the open section.

This is an example of the "shadow effect", you can see it on the date, the stars, and the E and some of the letters in E. Pluribus Unum.

 

the coin is dall looking, not the bright pictures that someone else put up. the coin is the frist two pictures its dall just like the pictures.

 

AT and butt ugly. Did a rainbow throw up?

 

looks fake to me, just my opinion. not that it matters

 

As we have stated before, definitively determining the origin of toning is nearly impossible. However, we can use indicators that will help us predict the origin of the toning to a high level of certainty, even if not 100%. This coin has many indicators of AT.

1. Color: These colors are not typically found on rainbow toned Morgan Dollars. More often than not a coin dominated by blue and purple is an AT creation. I can't remember the last time I saw dull mustard yellow on a Morgan.
2. Progression: The color progression does not follow the typical yellow-magenta-cyan typically seen on NT coins.
3. Pattern: The toning scheme on this coin is highly unusual. It is definitely not bag toned. It could be envelope toned, but I think it had help.
4. Toning Alignment: When coins are toned on both sides, examining the orientation of the toning with respect to each side is important. Air transfer toning takes years to form. The coin must remain undisturbed in the right conditions near it's toning source. Usually, you would expect that the area that shows the most advanced toning on the obverse would be closest to the toning source. Likewise the toning source would have to also be close to the reverse at the opposite pole. This coin has an untoned area between 10 & 11 o'clock. Therefore, we would expect that the area between 6 & 7 o'clock on the reverse show the least advanced toning. However, it actually shows the most advanced toning. Having said that, an envelope would negate this indicator because both sides would have an independent toning source.
5. Condition: The coin is an AU coin. There was no risk experimenting on this coin because it was really only worth melt anyway. If this coin was MS65+, I would be more willing to entertain the idea that is developed the toning from some horrible improper storage conditions.
6. Overall Appearance: It is not difficult for anyone used to toned Morgans to notice that this coin just doesn't look right. Furthermore, the artificially created toning is not even attractive. IMO, this coin is hideous. If it wasn't silver, I would throw it off a bridge into the ocean. As it is, it is worth melt.

It is hard to ignore the fact that this coin shows 6 indicators of artificial toning. It very well could be an envelope toned coin, but we know where my vote is AT.

 

Lehigh,

Great write up and analysis! I can only wish that I had your skills at determining AT and NT on coins! Now the OP has the information they were seeking!


Frank

 

The coin is beautiful! Who cares if it's AT? I'd love to have it.

 

lol..... I almost thought I knew what I was talking about.... DUH!!! I guess Lehigh96 knows his stuff.

The natural toning pattern for 90% silver coins is as follows:

1. Yellow
2. Magenta
3. Cyan

(to help remember this... just picture me yelling, "YOU MY COIN!"... Yellow, Magenta, Cyan)


There can be slight variances due to conditions, but with crazy 'circus' or 'crayola' colors you can be comfortably sure they are fakes. The toning should also be bonded to the coin and deep within the grooves and hard to get to spots like the sides of letters. This is especially true when looking at the black type toning that is also fairly common with silver coins.

Also the shadow effect as some say is not always correct. The "shadow" effect happens when the toning doesn't lay correctly because of the way the coin was struck. If a Morgans stars are not struck the correct way and have stars that are struck in a "squeeze, spread on one side effect" does not let the toning lay on it because of the metal content changes as it is opened and exposed, and mixed differently from the rest of the coin which gets a better toning". which gives it the "shadows" effect. The way the coin is struck effects the way the toning lays and developes on the coins specially on the Morgans stars...

AND THE COIN BELOW IN QUESTION IS NOT BEAUTIFUL IN MY OPINION SORRY!!!