Show us your Overstruck Coins!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Harry G, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. The Trachy Enjoyer

    The Trachy Enjoyer Well-Known Member

    Heraclius also counterstamped circulated coins. His reusage of coinage is quite interesting
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    That is definitely a die clash. Anyon interested in the difference is invited to see my page on the subject which includes my example of a restruck brockage, something I once thought did not exist.
    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/brock.html

    Since I updated that page I did get one more coin that should have been shown there. Die clashes usually are found with damage on the reverse die (the upper die). This one shows damage to the obverse. Note the arm of Juno right of Mamaea's nose. My guess is that the strike without a blank between the dies was so strong that the reverse die was destroyed completely and replaced with a new die of the same design. You can decide if that makes sense or if I am just guessing. rn0365fd0892.jpg
     
  4. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Doug,

    What makes you think that the rev. die was destroyed so had to be replaced by a new one?
     
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    [​IMG]
    Carthage-LIBYAN UPRISING - Mercenaries issue
    Mercenary War 241-238 BCE
    7.36g AR DiShekel
    Herakles Head in Lion's Head-
    Lion walking; Punic M above; LIBYA below
    R SNG Cop 240f
    Overstrike
    Coins were struck in the name of Libya and "M", which has been taken as either "machanat" - the Camp (of the mercenaries), or perhaps Matho, their leader

    @TIF was the savior with some incredible detective work to SOLVE the overstrike / Understrike coin
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/overstrike-detective-work.335938/

    [​IMG]

    The wheat grains are partly off flan on the example host coin but I think in total it is enough to declare it a definite match for the undertype :).”

    She ultimately came down to the Understruck coin... and I actually had an example in my collection! Bizarre coincidence.

    [​IMG]
    Carthage Zeugitania
    Libyan Revolt
    AR Shekel
    24mm 7.34g
    241-238 BCE
    Wreathed Tanit
    Horse stndg control mark and Punic M
    SNG Cop 236
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    To make that kind of imprint on the anvil die would require a good deal of pressure on the punch on the reverse but this die shows no degradation. I suppose this could have been a case with the reverse on the anvil or early pincher dies but I am imagining that the easy answer is that this reverse was not the same one that made the clash mark. I gather you disagree?

    Below is a strongly clashed Clodius Albinus with a good size chunk missing from the reverse die but I see no obverse damage. My guess is that the reverse would have been more damaged to make that mark on the Mamaea obverse assuming that the portrait were on the bottom and normally hardened (perhaps too much to assume?). Am I wrong that coins of this period were still being made with the revrse on top? I have seen bronzes of the Aurelius period that I believe were made with portrait on top but not Severans. Is that wrong? When did they start using hinged dies that could be struck either side up? I do wish that the clash imprint could be shown to be a different design but my guess requires them to have replaced a Juno with another Juno. How do you read this coin? rd0150b02071lg.jpg
     
  7. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Here is one of my favorites-- an unofficial FEL TEMP overstruck on a posthumous issue of Constantine I, both types from Antioch. Ex-Collection of Ralph Van Deman Magoffin, eminent American Classical scholar and archaeologist, 1874-1942 and now it's mine...all mine!

    the first pic with the coin rotated to show the undertype

    posthumous host.jpg

    what it looks like without an overstrike

    posthumous original.jpg


    now rotated to show the unofficial FEL TEMP

    FEL overstrike.jpg

    and what the official type looks like

    Antioch122.jpg
     
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Victor makes a good point here. It is helpful and fun to shoot overstrikes rotated to favor the undertype as well as the last use and, when possible, to have an undertype specimen that was not overstruck as a reference.
    Favoring the Anonymous A3 obverse
    rz0505fd3399.jpg
    Rotated to show the Gordian III as undertype
    rz0505fd3399r.jpg

    I have not yet found an as of the correct reverse as a reference coin but this is the sestertius of the type. I have so far failed to get a good photo of the reverse to show the undertype. There are only a couple weak letters. It will require making an overlay to point out where to look. Someday? Soon???
    ro0685fd1645.jpg
    Top is the reference coin; middle is the overstruck coin; bottom is the middle image with letters added to show where I see undertype. Obverse is left; reverse right.
    fim18a.jpg
     
  9. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Are we quite sure the undertype here is Gordian III...

    Clipboard1.jpg

    I see a rather fasionable lady pig wearing a medieval conical headdress... o_O

    Clipboard2.jpg
     
  10. Silphium Addict

    Silphium Addict Well-Known Member

    Great overstrike! There is a "prequel" for your "undertype" shekel. If you look at the lower right reverse, there is the remains of a horse's foreleg, back of neck and ear. Here is my example of the same type:
    jt546.jpg

    Libyan Revolt 241-240 BC
    AR Shekel 7.3 gm
    O: head Tanit left
    R: horse standing right, Punic M and 3 pellets below
    SNG Cop 237
    Overstruck on SNG Cop 187 (Obv with Tanit forehead, nose and chin lowe left; Rev with horse foreleg to right)

    Here is the undertype:
    jt355.jpg
    Carthage 255-241 BC
    AR Shekel 7.2 gm
    O: head Tanit left
    R: horse standing right with head turned back
    SNG Cop 187

    So, some of the SNG 236-237 (head Tanit/horse standing) were overstruck on earlier Carthaginian SNG Cop 187 shekels, either by Carthage to initially pay the mercenaries in 240 BC or by the mercenaries after being paid with the SNG Cop 187 coins. Some SNG 236-237 coins were subsequently undertypes for SNG Cop 239-242 (head Herakles/lion walking right) by the mercenaries when joined by Libyans.
    Overall, an interesting sequence that follows the events of the Libyan Revolt.
     
  11. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Doug,

    I was just trying to understand your explanation; don't know whether it is right or wrong.
     
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Great coins! Congrats. Oh, man what a nasty war that Carthage stupidly got themselves in to. I know they were trapped by the huge indemnities that they had to pay Rome, then still had to cash out the Mercenaries... but to transport them outside of Carthage just made it a madhouse for them! Horrible and cruel 3yr long war...

    Even the Romans gave up their Carthage prisoners of war back to them, so they could have troops to fight the Mercenaries... Rome felt bad for them, and were appalled by the atrocities!

    [​IMG]
    Carthage - LIBYAN REVOLT 241-238 BCE Sardinia mint Tanit 3 Grain ears SNG Cop 252

    [​IMG]
    Carthage - LIBYAN REVOLT Rebels 241-238 BCE 9.63g 24mm Shekel Sardinia mint Tanit 3 Grain ears Crescent SNG Cop 247
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  13. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Sort of cheating on an ancients thread, but this just came in the mail today.

    I don't really "do" Swedish coins, but I noticed the overstrike and saw in Krause that the early dates for these 1/2 skillings were overstruck on 18th century 1 Or coppers. I thought it looked interesting and the price was right ($7).

    The host coin's date 176[?] is visible on the obverse around 2 o'clock:

    Sweden - 1803 Half Skilling over 1760s Or Mar 2021a.jpg

    Sweden Æ 1/2 Skilling
    Gustav IV Adolf 1803
    Avesta Mint

    Crowned CAIV monogram flanked by three crowns / 1/2 SKIL-crossed arrows-LING
    1803
    KM 565.
    Overstruck host coin:
    Sweden 1 Öre of Adolf Frederick
    Crowned AF monogram flanked by three crowns / [1·ÖR] crossed arrows S·M,
    First three digits of date visible: 176[0/1/3/8/9]
    KM 460
     
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