Can someone show me sticker company #2 ? Who is competing with CAC ?[/QUOTE] .........not yet, i said FUTURE. mark my words.
For most of this thread, I agree with Lehigh, ie, that CAC provides a valuable (though by no means required) service, if you don't like CAC, then ignore the beans, and there is a benefit to having John Albanese sign off on a grade, but... I have to say this value/rarity grading is problematic and GD has a lot of this right. For instance in the Buffalo nickels, I have looked on-line at a few 26-S's in MS65 that are clearly 64 at best (not that I could afford them either way but it's nice to dream) and that makes me wonder about the ones that are graded 64. PCGS has graded eleven 26-S's in 65 but I have to wonder how many of them would really make that grade if the graders ignored the date and mintmark? For what it's worth, there is not a single 26-S in 65 that has a CAC sticker on it so maybe John Albanese is not just following this value/rarity-plus grading like some have suggested.
Thanks Doug. I wonder what CAC would do when faced with the Reiver collection? Oh well - my last post on CAC. I must have spend 2 extra hours last night just reading and looking at coins online for it. Comparing multiple CAC coins in the same grade. Looks like I need to wait longer for final judgement.
It is generally unwise and unfair to assert that a coin is a given grade, at best, based on your only having viewed it on-line. Obviously many coins look considerably better or worse and/or different in-hand and that is usually the only way to evaluate them for purposes of accurate grading.
Mark You're of course right -- I did not have the coins in hand and they may look better in person. I can't help but wonder though if these stories of value grading are overstated or not.
It is sad if one person disagrees they are called ignorant I just do not want to pay 10-50% more for a sticker THE END!
I wholeheartedly connect with you on that, Mike...FWIW. But, that's about the only utility I really see. If you think about it, further, these green beans are, in one word, endorsements ...endorsements the coins are, well, "good for the grade." That's all. The harder question, though, as I see it, is, "Will they tip the scales, so to speak, in negotiations between sellers and buyers?" I don't think they will, nor should, influence what, I'll refer to, simply, as, "astute buyers." But, I can't honestly say the same thing for, well, I'll be diplomatic, now, "less than astute buyers." And, therein, IMHO, lies the rub. In fact, I'll go as far as to say, "pedigree," when you get right down to it, is in the very same boat...it's an endorsement, too. And, let's face it, for better or for worse, there's a segment of the market out there that pays some serious attention to such things when evaluating (notice I'm hesitant to call that aspect, "grading") and pricing coins.
You don't have to pay 10%-50% more for the sticker, and you are free to judge a coin for yourself, regardless of whether it is a CAC (or any other type of) coin or not.
You seem to make a habit of declaring that a discussion is over when someone points out that you have posted incorrect information or says something that you don't like to hear. That's not a good way to learn and benefit from conversations.
BS? That's how you characterize the opposing viewpoint? We just had our viewpoint characterized, here, as "unrelenting and ignorant." What are you guys getting so upset for? This is just coins.
I'm with Mark on this one, being a coin photographer there is no way you can accurately grade 90% of coins from a photo, you can get close or make a best guess but you just don't know what is there in hand. Those "worn down points on an IHC" could just be a weak strike. On other coins it's darn near impossible to guage hairlines, a coin in a photo that does not show hairlines could be anywhere from MS60 to MS69 if the photo hides them well. I would not be so quick to judge CAC based on photographic representation especially when two photos of the same coin can make it look like a completely different coin in color and detail depending on slight angle shifts etc.. and that is assuming the original photo had proper white balance etc...
OK, let's get past that. Mark, I told Leadfoot Mike, I get the "buyer protection" thingy, angle, whatever one wants to call it. But, everybody is still avoiding my question. My question relates to after the fact of the buy. Let me put it this way. Guess the grade. I say, "64." You say, "63*." Invariably, some guy comes along and says, "65, plus a CAC sticker!" That then devolves into, "It should get a CAC sticker," versus "It shouldn't get a CAC sticker." In the public mind, as things seem to stand, these stickers have relevance beyond just the buy. I'll go as far as to say, some people seem to think they have grading relevance. That keeps up, and CAC's market share continues to grow, do the unstickered slabs go the way raw coins have gone? Are those now "market inferior?" That's the kindergarten version, if you will, of what I'm wondering...
I seriously doubt that non-CAC coins will go the way of raw coins. After all, they are still NGC or PCGS certified coins, backed by grading and authenticity guarantees and in many cases, supported by dealer bids. Also, for various reasons, many coins will never be submitted to CAC.
Well, for $9.50 you can send your coins to me and I'll place my sticker on them if I like them. There, now there's competition. Who's to say their opinion is more valuable than mine? Guy~
You work for a TPG or CAC? You should...with a tactic like that you would be great in marketing. This is laughable. The way I see it is those people who blindly follow trends will jump right on the bandwagon and thank CAC for allowing them to spend even more for a coin to have a so called expert grade the grade. People like you will help them along and make it seem like it makes sense. Dont want to be accused of being 'afraid of change' right? Mr. Leadfoot seems to know what he is talking about...look how he types with such authority and tells that guy he is ignorant! This tactic you use is funny if not transparent. You make it seem like a person who sees this for what it is is 'afraid of change' or 'afraid of the unknown'. There is no mystery here and no big change....people have been trying to suck a little more cash out of collectors for many many years, CAC just found another way. If I didn't know it was real, I would think the whole idea was a joke. I don't use TPGs and I have a problem with them, but I can even half way see why people seek that false sense of security when they buy. CAC? I would laugh if it wasn't that they are serious. I am sometimes amazed...just when I thought I have seen every imaginable way someone can trying to make a living off collectors...something like this comes along. Go figure... Now of course I must add that just because its ridiculous doesn't mean its wrong. I would never buy an Obama sticker coin, I think they are deplorable...but of course if they can make money and they aren't breaking a law...its certainly their right. Just like with TPGs, there are people who simply will not buy a coin that isn't slabbed...they put their trust in these instead of learning and trusting themselves...that fine and their right. I expect there will be a few more companies like CAC soon...there is money to be made from collectors with more money than sense. Its like anti-virus programs. They make billions on our fear of a virus. These people make money on our fear of getting taken. So China churning out fakes is only good news to them. It shows the level of fear when people will now grade the graders...or grade the grader who graded the graders grade.
1st I said the end because the name calling & the baiting me in to saying some think bad 2nd I have the right to disagree I spent 20 year 15 days in the Us Army protecting that freedom 3rd it was just opinion. 4th but a picture worth a 1000 word. granted this is a rare coin that should sell about 20-22k but 32.500.00 a green thing, I will just have miss out CAC coins
Don't mean to bait or cause any harm but you don't know if that coin would have sold for less without the sticker? It just happened to have it. Yes it may have been the sticker but it's not really fair to say it was, I have seen coins sell for way above sheet because they were stellar for the grade and sold themselves just fine without the sticker.
