Low Ball Offers...Don't Ya' Hate Em'?

Assuming you mean PCGS and NGC - I think yes. It makes the two sides - buyer and seller - easier to agree. Now with raw what you usually have(not always see) is a person grading the coin AU and a dealer XF (does not matter who has the right grade) - either the dealer is low balling them or the seller has overgraded the coin. So that question is kind of hard to answer - in my opinion. I have seen this happen at my local coin store - I have seen them patiently explain how they came to the grade and the price. In my opinion it is just tougher with raw - there are good sellers, bad dealers, etc. etc. I think between to repected knowledgeable dealers it might not matter - then again in that case the buying dealer needs to make some money.

Investors - have no clue what some of them do, but my suspicion is they are they ones that buy the holder and not the coin. Yes - there are a lot of people who do that - and yes they do not know how to grade. I probably would not have put it as bluntly as speedy - but there are a lot of people who put no effort into collecting and do just that. Some get lucky some lose. Toss up to me. All just my opinion.

 

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I really don't believe I'm hearing this. Quote speedy: those who invest in coins clearly have not done their home work.

WOW.

 

Of course, it would have been nice if you would have quoted my whole line of thought -here is is...

This first quote is from T$.

This quote by me:

As you can clearly see I was addressing the comment that T$ made to the guy who sent him an offer. He bought up that the slab doesn't add value, and T$ said that it was stupid.
I commented that the slab is just a nice coin holder to anyone that does their homework, and learns about coins - it doesn't help the value by 1cent.
Speedy

 

So let me ask you a question -
Do you think investing in coins is a good idea?
Do you normally check out what you are looking to invest in, or just invest on a whim?

Speedy

 

speedy, my friend, if you look at the post in which I quoted you, it was your full quote. Top of this page.

 

People of any age sometimes lose sight of how they would want to be treated or what may be best for the long term. It's how we handle it when we have the opportunity to be reminded.

 

are you suggesting that "ALL" investors simply buy a "slab" , and know nothing about the numismatic history of an item they are investing in? It sure sounds that way.

 

MY Dealer always pays me "Blue sheet" when I sell my slabbed coins to him.

 

I asked you a question first

http://www.cointalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=652939&postcount=45
nope -

Speedy

 

Originally Posted by Speedy
So let me ask you a question -
Do you think investing in coins is a good idea?
Do you normally check out what you are looking to invest in, or just invest on a whim?

Speedy

The first question is to general in scope.
The answer to the second question is absolutely not, as to just investing in them. I am a collector, small investor. But more importantly, one who takes the time to research, solicit opinions from trusted business associates, and from those, who are more knowledgeable than I in specific areas of numismatics. I also value the opinions of those who present a clear picture of any downside, or other opposing view of my potential investment. Do I fit your image of an investor?

 

For me an investment, whether it be Coins or other Tangible Assets I never attempt for other than long term profit potential.

 

A couple of points in reply to your comments...

When there are large differences in value between two grades, even among knowledgeable buyers and sellers it can be extremely difficult to agree on a grade and price for an uncertified coin.

And plenty of buyers look at the coin in the slab and aren't lazy or failing to do their homework, just because they pay more for a slabbed example.

And I will again take strong issue with the comment that

That is a gross and very unfair exaggeration. If you had said "Some people" instead of "The only people", it would have been valid.

 

Speedy based on your comment, you are saying that all people who have slabbed coins in their collection are just lazy people, who don't do their homework?
I do my homework, and I try to learn as much as I can about the coin and the market, before I do anything.
I buy coins in slabs, so I know my coin is authentic, and I can learn how to grade the coins, with more accuracy, and it has helped. I get better at grading, and learn something new every day.
There is nothing wrong with buying a coin in a slab.

 

I really don't understand the perceived hatred of TPG's that seems to have gripped this forum. The notion that a third party opinion of the coins grade drives the price of a coin higher is ludicrous. The market sets the price for every coin with a certain grade. The difference in price is due to the fact that without the third party opinion, usually the buyer and the seller don't agree on the grade. The seller will almost always overgrade to maximize profit and the buyer will almost always undergrade in order to get a bargain. In the rare case that the grade of a coin is undisputed between buyer and seller, the coin most likely trade at the same price as a graded coin.

The TPG's put and end to the days where unscrupulous dealers would take junk coins and call them gem BU. They ensure and guarantee authenticity and grade. They protect and preserve the valuable coin inside for many years to come and ensure liquidity when it comes time to sell. Given all that the TPG's do to help collectors, they still face seemingly endless criticism.

Speedy, I have to say I am disappointed in your attitude towards TPG's. I would think that someone with your experience would not have such a cynical outlook. Furthermore, you really shouldn't talk in absolutes. Is that a requirement for moderators on Cointalk. Making the statement that rare coins are NOT a good investment is ridiculous. For most people, without the requisite knowledge, you are correct. But there are plenty of people with the right knowldege and capital to make a profit investing in rare coins. The same holds true in almost any investment arena. People routinely stick their money in the stock market with little or no knowledge and lose money everyday. Speaking in absolutes all but guarantees you to be wrong because there is always and exception to the rule.

 

Some of Speedy's opinions gave me two earaches. Okay, all kidding aside, I'm in shock.

 

Lehigh, how did the Balsamo auction go?

 

What is Balsamo? Is that the Los Angeles Sale?

 

Sorry I have Luigi Balsamo on my mind tonight. I meant Luis Bassano. It ends tomorrow

 

Not well. The coin I wanted (Pilgrim) sold for $8,625. Just to give you and idea, PCGS Price guide for a 1920 Pilgrim commem in MS67 is $4,250. But I am sure that Mr. Bassano's collection lost money during this sale because we have already learned in this thread that rare coins are NOT a good investment.

 

session 6 is tomorrow