Low Ball Offers...Don't Ya' Hate Em'?

Mark, how do those that consider themselves " collectors" acquire these opinions? Lordy! or is it just a remark made to incite attacks upon an individual member. I just don't get this.

 

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You need to ask them - I have no idea.

 

Very well. Speedy, Hontoni, please explain?

 

depends...

I think if I was trying to sell a coin I'd rather get a couple low-ball offers rather than end up with no sale. Low balls help confirm the coin is desirable, whereas if I got no bites I might feel like I'm sitting on a skunk.

If you were truly hard up for the $ you'd at least consider the offer. That's the problem with internet transactions, they are too impersonal. If you ran a shop and that fella came in once a month to plunk down $200 every month you wouldn't have considered being disrespectful towards a low-ball from him.

Situation dictates the terms. With the economy what it is, maybe he buys more nice coins with low ball offers than you realize. Maybe he knows something you don't. I disagree with the statement that the slab isn't worth extra, I'd rather buy a coin already slabbed than to have to slab it myself, if that was my intent. Then again I don't buy slabs to crack em open.

If you don't like the offer then don't take it. No reason to be mean. Most coin guys are real happy just to share what they know. Being nice will help your transactions in the long run.

 

I just did a search on Teletrade for 1911 AU58 Quarter Eagles for the past 180 days. Results:
1 - $190
4 - $230
1 - $260
Also, when I go back and look at the coins I bought on Teletrade these prices do not include the juice, regardless of what the asterisk says!

I think the offer was fair and justified. You will only sell a coin for what the market will bear, regardless of what PCGS or Numismedia quote. I recently learned this myself on a similar coin.

 

ok T$ get's it. No need to provide further "lashes"

 

I am very confused. What does the buyers premium have anything to do with the value of the coin. When searching auction archives for valuation, you must include the buyer's premium because that is the amount the buyer paid to acquire the coin. You don't get to back out the 15% and say that is the value of the coin. It just doesn't work that way. The total amount paid is the value of the coin regardless of where the money goes after it is paid.

The last two PCGS coins both sold for $253 and Numismedia Wholesale is $245. T$ was asking basically retail price for the coin and the guy offers 10% back of bid. The qualifies for lowball in my book, not a negotiating tactic. Having said that, I have seen much worse and T$'s response should have been just to decline the offer. It was lowball but not offensive IMO

 

exactly. His asking price was not out of line, neither was the offer that was presented.

 

Paul, I wasn't saying that you need to back out the 15% buyer's premium to come up with the "value" of the coin", but you do need to back it out to see approximatey what the seller netted for the coin. While the price that the buyer pays in auction includes the buyer's premium added on to the hammer price, the seller does not net that price. That's because, one way or another, he has to pay a commission to the auction house.

So, in my example from my earlier post, the fact that an auction coin might have sold to the buyer for $265 is not the same as the seller netting that amount. The seller in that transaction probably netted about $230.

If a transaction is conducted without having to pay a commission to a middleman, the buyer can pay less and/or the seller can net more and/or some combination of those two can occur. And that is the situation that existed when the coin was listed on a BST forum.

 

It doesn't, I was trying to justify the asking price, and therefore the offer. However, the buyer isn't buying through an auction house with large overhead.

 

I'm confused, as I often am with long threads. Whats the question you're asking?

 

Yeah, both seemed fairly reasonable to me, which is why I'm not sure why it was discussed here in the first place, nor am I sure why we're still discussing it.

 

Yes, but I also know a lot of collectors who use it daily as their guide. In most cases when I go to a show the dealers are useing the Gray Sheet to sell to collectors, so I would also say that the Gray Sheet is for dealer/collector, and that is kindof what we have here.

Between 2 knowledgeable collectors/dealers it isn't hard. I've sold coins before that both I and the other party knew enough about to know the details of the coin. While it was raw it was also $$ - it didn't make one bit of differance.
I did sell a 1950 Proof Franklin once to DLRC - the buyer guy told me it wasn't PR but rather MS. I knew enough about the coin to know that he was wrong and I pointed out to him over the phone what to look for. He also did research and called me back and agreeded. The price was the same had the coin been raw or slabbed - what made the price change was the type of minting.

Over and over again we have talked about how you should buy the coin NOT the slab - this is true in selling as well.

Day after day I see people who buy slabs - they don't even look at the coin inside but rather just rely on the piece of paper inside. They are either too lazy to take the time to check out the coin and do alittle QC for their collection, or they just don't bother to do the homework. Without homework you lose big time at this game of collecting.
Mark - I'm sure you do homework on each coin you buy. You ask others what they think (CAC), and you make sure you are getting a good price. No doubt you know what that type of coin is selling for, and you know that the market is in a good spot to where you can re-sell the piece.
That is what I'm talking about - IMHO T$ didn't do the market research -he paid too much for the piece and is having a hard time unloading it...and rightly so.

I'm not bashing him - heck, I've done the same thing, but the big thing is that hopefuly he, and the rest of us, learn from this.

Speedy

 

Not sure what you want explained, but I'll assume it's the proposition that a slab adds no value to a coin.

On further introspection, and review of the responses to this thread, I have come to the conclusion that this is one of those things, like religion, where it can be said that

• If you believe, no proof is necessary, and
• If you don't believe, no proof is sufficient.

However, I stand by my statement that calling the potential buyer "stupid" was an uncalled for bit of self-aggrandizement. Actually, I hadn't noticed who the originator of this thread was when I made that statement, so I didn't realize that it was simply an immature reaction.

This is my final comment in this thread, so don't ask me any more questions about it.

 

By the by - I pulled out the sheet from the coin auction I went to the other day. They sold a $2.50 gold piece that would have been UNC for $220.

Speedy

 

No speedy , here is the comment you made.

Originally Posted by Speedy
The only people who pay more for the slab are those who either are lazy, or who are working on a set and need THAT coin.

I'm hoping you really don't mean this.

 

Dealers pay more for TPG coins. Do they not?

Investors usually purchase authenticated coins. Do they not?


Damn, your not going to answer my question.

 

That's the key - not to bash T$ but to learn something from this. If CT adopts auctions the hope is that we do not treat each other unprofessionally. It is easy to mix emotion with money but hard to undo insults or a negative view. That's not the case here and I think everyone here feels that while it may have been a slight overreaction it is part of learning how business is done. Great lesson for all of us as I am 100% sure we all wish we could redo at least 1 business encounter

 

Not the ones around me - they have a set price that they pay and that is it. If he doesn't feel good with his grading on a coin or some he sends it off and has a deal set up where if it comes back good he will buy it at X of $.

that would have been worded corrected had it been....purchase TPG sballec coins....and the answer would be yes they do. And why do they do that.....because they are lazy and don't want to do their homework in 99.9% cases.
Coin collecting is NOT a good investment, and those who invest in coins clearly have not done their home work. These are also the people who believe that PCGS is the best grading company in the word.

Speedy

 

I'm sort of pondering, is it more immature to call someone immature? or more mature to recognize, that age has a learning curve. I think T$ is doing fairly well with that.