Do you own coins which were rare when you bought them, but no longer due to NEW HOARDS ?

It's never meant that. It's a literal word with a literal dictionary definition. While OFTEN key word OFTEN hidden away, being hidden away was never a requirement. It's really not complicated

 

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Because of course a "literal dictionary definition" always captures all the nuance of a word's meaning in a particular context.

A hoard obviously doesn't have to be hidden, but it does have to be held -- that is, removed from the market. Otherwise, isn't it just INVENTORY?

 

I never said inventory was a hoard (though you really could argue that with some dealers it is), the point was that being a secret and being some new discovery was never part of being a hoard. Just because you know someone is living in 6 feet of magazines in their house doesn't mean they aren't a hoarder. Someone holding something and it being a secrete to everyone is two different things

 

Pretty much it. Massive collections in museums, but not for sale. If they went to liquidate the BM section of ANY coin type it would affect the market.

Its really hoard dispersal that we talk about when we talk about hoards, its just coin collector shortcut language. The fact they found 200,000 BU Roman coins in Spain does not affect the market. Yes its a hoard, but no one trying to sell them. Once they started trying to sell the group, THAT would be a "hoard" we would talk about, an abnormal quantity of coins hitting the market. The act of dispersal of a group of coins is what most collectors are referring to when talking about hoards.

I knew a dealer who loved hoarding 1877 cents. He took great pleasure bragging about how many collectors couldn't finish their cents due to him, (yeah, he was a jerk). Not sure how many he ever got, but every show he checked all dealers and bought any he found. He showed me a few rolls one time of g-vg 1877s. However, even though they were a hoard, collectors didn't talk about them because they were off the market. At some point, though, they would be dispersed, THEN people would talk about that hoard.

 

A hundred years ago the 1889 S Morgan was the king of dollars. Then the treasury released some. Now all but forgotten.

 

Along with the 1903-O and 1904-O and a few others.

Although I think the 1903-O has finally round-tripped in price depending on if you assume the FMV was actually $500 or $1,500 in 1962 (tough to say since there were really no transactions).

 

What wonderful discussions/rants/etc....loved it and very informational for me...thanks to all....hopefully there will be additional discussions

 

That's why CT is here, to provoke, discuss, back-and-forth.

Hell, if we all agreed with one another this place would be pretty boring.

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts in the present or when past hoards were found.

 

Here is a link to a 2014 Coin World article about a known hoard, which likely is still being added to...
https://www.coinworld.com/news/prec...ctions-numismatics-coin-collecting-hobby.html

As evidenced by this article published three years later...
https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/collector-now-owns-12-of-16-known-mule-errors.html

And yet another article the following year...
https://www.coinworld.com/news/prec...-paid-for-double-denomination-mule-error.html

 

I don't know what his game is, but if he's deliberately "cornering the market" he's not really being courteous to his fellow collectors.

And if he holds them all or most of them for years or decades, he may find out that nobody then gives a hoot about buying them when he needs or wants to sell.

 

A little different, there was a very rare coin I couldn't afford, until that is a hoard was found. An ancient from a Greek colony in Cilicia. When the first coin hit the market I was very excited, and narrowly lost at auction. Then a second coin hit the market, I got that one at a reasonable price, but no bargain. Then a third hit the market, then... you get the idea.

 

Interesting, Mark....what was the population pre and post-hoard ?

How much did prices drop to make it affordable for you ?

 

Going back a bit in this interesting thread - this was the response to what coin "values" or populations were impacted by the excavation of the SS Central America - yes this is so true that I believe the population of the 57-S may be even larger than what used to be the more common philly 57. But I think the S still goes for more money whether ship wreck certified or not - go figure? Mystique I guess.

 

I think the SS Central America and the 1857-S are unique in hoard history and supply/demand issues....the publicity from the find, and the very fact that shipwreck hoards are extremely limited (we know all of them, pretty much).

The 1857-S led to INCREASED activity in Type 1 Double Eagle interest as before it was virtually impossible to get the coin in Mint State (and pricey/hard to get in AU and below). Now, you could get it at a price that was not at 5-figures.

The shipwreck find and the coins from the ship generated enough publicity (I remember watching the Discovery Channel special almost 20 years ago) and increased interest in Double Eagles, the 1857-S, and gold from the hoard in general.

It jump-started my interest again, and a few of my family members and friends, too.

 

The problem with hoards, you have to keep them quiet. If you send a quantity out tp PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG, people are going to notice in the population list. Then the price starts coming down , except on Etsy and eBay.

 

Absolutely, with new supply. That was my point.

I may get that Bowers HOARD book.

 

That's not really true. If we were able to drain the oceans there would be countless shipwrecks down there with hoards that we had no idea of. Of course many of them we cannot get too, but doesn't mean we wouldn't find a lot of things we have no idea is down there

 

I meant shipwrecks in the "modern era" of transportation, since 1800 or so. Any ships that went down, there's a written record pretty much for every one, certainly since 1850.

Shipwrecks from 1640, who knows......

 

There's a lot more undocumented than you think. Even now half the world keeps spotty records at best and thats just for the really big ships, not even counting the smaller ones trying to move stuff quietly.

 

That's a good point. There must be tons (literally) of stuff all over the world from wrecks of smaller ships that went down in the 19th century. Ships that weren't in the registries, fishing boats, whalers, transportation, etc that in the 19th century would likely have had gold and silver coinage on them, if only for normal commerce. Universally accepted in a world without credit cards! haha.