Introduction and some questions, especially about Trade Dollars and Govmint.com

Hi,
(thank you in advance for this long winded introduction)

I've been collecting coins for years- my strategy going in was to pick up a few cheap examples of anything that interested me so I could evaluate them in person and make a decision as far as which direction to proceed.

Recently, chop-marked trade dollars became the object of my affection.

Before coins I was an avid baseball card collector for years. I hated slabbed cards- I like handling the actual item- after enough time I was confident enough to know real from fake, good from bad dealers, etc.

I guess my point is that I'm well versed in the notion of doing a lot of research before actually buying anything.

Yesterday I made my first "big" purchase (by big, I mean that prior to this, I had never spent more than $20 on one of my "research" coins.

I like the idea of raw, but realize that Trade Dollars, in particular, are shady unless slabbed by a reputable grader.

Unable to find a slabbed chopmarked Trade Dollar for a reasonable price, yesterday I bought a raw chopmarked TD from govmint.net. I'm not worried about being scammed- they've been in business for 25 years, told me that if I was unsatisfied with the coin, I had 7 days to return it, and I can't imagine that their master plan from the beginning was to swindle some sucker out of $125 and retire to Tahiti. My fear lies in being disappointed if it turns out to be not what I want it to be (needless to say, they assure me its authentic, etc).

I don't have a scan- they took it down from their site after I paid, but based on what you know about them, I'm wondering what the consensus is as far as the prospect of it being real or fake.

So I have a few questions, if you don't mind...

1. What's the consensus on govmint? Is it likely that my coin is fake?
2. What are some reputable online dealers?
3. Is finding a raw chopmarked Trade Dollar as hard as I'm beginning to think it is?

Any help, direction, etc is appreciated.
Thanks very much in advance.
-David

 

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Welcome, David.

I would not do business with any company that uses the word "mint" in their name (unless they are a legitimate government Mint).

There are TONS of fake Trade Dollars out there. Some fake Trade Dollars even are chop-marked.

You should be able to find a decent chop-marked Trade Dollar at your local coin shop or coin show. You might also try Teletrade or Heritage.

 

It's tough to buy raw coins through a large mail order dealer sometimes. It's possible that the coin is cleaned or some other problems, not just authenticity.

I would take the coin (don't open the holder,otherwise, you can't send it back) to a local coin dealer in your area and get his/her opinion. Or scan the coin yourself and put it up in this forum for opinions.

I know you don't like slabbed coins, but the ultimate test is to send it to one of the grading services and get an expert opinion. You can always crack the coin back out after slabbing. For this, I recommend ANACS, because you can send them coins directly without having to pay for a "club" fee, and they are good about identifying altered coins. Their website is www.anacs.com.

But no matter what happens, this is a good learning experience, and will give you better knowledge as a collector.

 

Trade Dollars - authenitc?

Interestingly, I happened upon these two chopmarked TDs in the past few minutes- not from Govmint.com - anyone care to give an opinion as to authenticity/problems/etc?
Thanks in advance...

 

Not familiar with them, but psuedo "mint" sites are frequently suspect, and neither being around for a long time nor advertising in known periodicals removes the suspicion.

Harlan Berk, Teletrade, Heritage, Ira & Larry Goldberg, to name just a few of my favorites.

If you think it's extremely difficult, you're right.

I don't think so. The denticles are much more typical of Chinese counterfeits, as are the soapy appearance of the surfaces. The vast majority of fakes (not all, fail the weight test, but of course if you don't have the coins in hand you have to take the seller's word for weight. Personally, I wouldn't unless I had a great deal of confidence, based on happy experiences, with the seller.

 

Hi Sesop welcome to CoinTalk, the only thing I will add is be very careful when buying this type of coin, there realy are so may fakes out there,

 

Thanks everyone- what an amazing resource. I already named the store of the first coin in question (posted a pic from govmint in a different thread). Can I name the seller of these two for a referral? I don't know whether that's frowned upon, given that if the suspicion is that they're fakes, it's a strong accusation. If anyone is interested or wouldn't mind helping, please email me privately-

I've already paid for the govmint coin- it's posted in the other thread- opinions appreciated. I can return it (or cancel the order I suppose)-

any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
David

 

David,

It's not a good idea to post your e-mail address on a public forum. Don't be surprised if a moderator edits your post.

 

Instead of asking for an email ask the others to PM you .
rzage

 

The photos of those trade dollars (in the 2x2's) are too small to state with confidence that they are either genuine or copies. The Chinese have been faking them for over 100 years, have had access to many genuine ones for making transfer dies, and frequently apply chopmarks to lend an air of authenticity. Some of the fakes can only be outed by inspection with a 10x lens. Buyer beware!

 

Must be a night off. I guess everyone went to the game.....

 

Here are a couple of genuine chopmarked trade dollars, maybe you can compare the images to coins you are interested in?

 

I've edited out my email address- thanks for all the tips. I'm attaching a pic of the coin from Govmint.com (posted it in another thread but figured it couldn't hurt here too). I see the point about the rims looking different on this one, as well as the notion that for the amount of marks, the coin should be more worn- I still have some hope that its real, but if it is, at best, it's been cleaned to the point that in spite of its shineyness, the rims/rails are worn down.

The coin hasn't shipped from the store yet- if you were me, would you cancel the order? Also, in canceling the order/returning the coin, or all the statements people have made about the other two I posted, isn't calling them fakes tantamount to accusing a seller of fraud? I know it's more common to find fakes than genuine TDs, but it's the expert dealer/store's job to know their merchandise. If a watch store was carrying fake Rolexes, wouldn't we expect the shop to know the difference?

The store where I found the 2 coins seems to be a small-time dealer whose name has not been mentioned in either of my threads as a reputable dealer- if someone would PM me, I could share the name- maybe that would help?

Anyway... do I cancel the order or receive the coin?

Thanks again. You guys are incredible.

 

If you can cancel the sale, I would advise you to do so. I just do not feel comfortable with that coin, as imaged. I personally feel that a significant number of coin sellers do not know how to authenticate trade dollars, beyond weighing them and a quick look for signs of casting. Now, if the seller would give you an ironclad guarantee of authenticity, such that if you sent the coin to ANACS and it were found "not genuine," they would refund ALL of your costs (I call that standing behind what you sell) you might decide that it is worth it. Personally, I would not, for the reasons stated in my other post and by others as well.

Re: the other 2 dollars you posted, I iterate what I said in post #10. If the seller will provide larger, sharp photos of those coins, and you can post them here, I might be able to offer a more firm opinion.

 

Amen brother!

 

GovMint is legit...they are just a large retail operation so expect full retail markup. They have a solid relationship with PCGS and NGC. Keep in mind a coin that some say is 3 times overpriced really has the same profit margin as anything you buy at the mall, grocery store, etc.

 

I would be pretty surprised if the coin was NG based upon where it came from (govmit), but you will pay absolutely maximum retail there.

you are correct, genuine Trade Dollars with genuine chops are challenging to locate. The two in the 2x2's look NG to me, but it is hard to be certain based on the poor images.

 

GovMint is perhaps the largest distributor for many mints such as Perth/ Royal Mint/ Pobjoy Mint etc...which enables them to secure exclusive designs and strikings. Plus GovMint is just a trade name for Asset Marketing Services who has been in business since 1984. And they offer an easy 30 day refund on everything.

In common items GovMint is very competitive...a 2012 Silver Eagle is $39. Graded eagles same as places like Modern Coin Mart but with a govmint exclusive NGC label. GovMint has exclusives that are very pricy but only they have them...similar to PandaAmerica and some of their Chinese coin offerings.