What is the difference: GSA Morgan Silver Dollar vs GSA Morgan Uncirculated Silver Dollar

Someone mentioned here that the last sale was 1980 or 1981.

 

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For what it's worth on this subject, I have two coins...a Kennedy Half and a Washington Quarter...that appeared so exceptional that I submitted them to PCGS (at different times) and both were returned graded MS65...and both came from a cash register into my pocket before getting home and eventually finding them. Proof that circulated coins CAN be...however seldom or rarely, etc...unrecognized as such and graded MS (maybe that term...Mint State...should not be, or technically IS NOT...synonymous or the same as, "uncirculated..." in the true definition of "uncirculated")...? I don't know...I'm just throwing my two cents worth in the ring while reading and learning.

 

You are thinking pre market grading again. From a cash register yes. from a pocket I really have my doubts. I collect all new releases this way and it is very rare to find a coin that would grade Gem 65 from your pocket, And in the past 15 years has never happened.

 

I know we've done this dance before.......but if a coin legitimately ONLY has bag marks, if that is the only "wear" that the coin has, it probably is unfair to call it AU instead of MS.

If a coin went straight to a bag...and only got 1 bag mark....then to call it AU would seem excessive. In fact, you could then only have MS coins that were MS-70: perfect coins. Any "ding" or mark is "wear" and thus you go down to AU-58 at the most.

I think the TPGs were damned if they do, damned if they don't, GD.

 

When coins are in a bag, Yes they can get contact and heavy marks, depending on how the bag was handled. But also think f those coins rubbing against each other creating contact and wear on the high points. You might think yeah this coin is strait from a mint bag. It has got to be MS. That just isn't the case. Under magnification even on the pieces no one would suspect, there is high point wear. The same kind of wear you would find on saints/gold that have been stacked in a tube. Searched and restacked in that tube multiple times. The same wear as if the coin was stored in a coin cabinet, etc. This type of wear has been deemed acceptable in Market grading and now instead of being an AU 58 or low MS, they have reached the mid and high MS category.

One thing they do not show is the mismatched light/fine surface scratches that make it evident that the coin is in fact circulated.

 

I guess you missed my point. Because of the surfaces and low relief of these new coins. As soon as they hit a pocket they scuff. It is rare to find a coin in circ today even from a register that would get a MS grade. Especially using the ANA grading standards.

 

No, I get it -- but didn't you post a few back that bag marks ARE wear ????

I do acknowledge that for a coin that has got DOZENS of bag marks and may even have true wear on high points -- all from bag movement -- might look worse than an AU-58 with outside wear and thus you can make a case it shouldn't even grade MS-60 or MS-61.

The Bottom Line Is This: If bag marks and dings and scuffs from bag movement and coins banging around within a bag are going to be considered wear....then you'll have very few Mint State coins.

So bag MARKS are NOT considered wear, for better or worse.

If WEAR happens WITHIN the bag....my understanding is it can still be graded Mint State. I guess this assumes a grader can differentiate bag wear from outside wear.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here, Pick....the question is....is it wrong ?

Is "wear" from a bag -- defined as different than light nick marks and scratches from the bag movement -- the same as wear from circulation or stacking or whatever ?

And how likely is it to get "wear" from within a bag ? Dinks and scratches, yes. But wear on the high points ?

Maybe the graders can tell the difference between circulation wear and bag wear. I'm just speculating here, don't shoot the messenger.

 

Maybe this can sum all this up (or maybe not ). We have 3 coins from WITHIN a bag (let's say Saints). All went straight from the Mint production line to a bag.

Coin 1: Has dings and scratches....no wear.....full luster.

Coin 2: Has dings and scratches....SOME wear on high points....full or nearly-full luster.

Coint 3: Has dings and scratches....SOME wear on high points....luster is reduced.

Now...can all 3 of these coins be graded Mint State ?

 

Boy am I glad I decided NOT to become a professional coin grader !

 

GSAs -just like the GAO sold them.

 

In my opinion
Coin 1 Yes
Coin 2 No
Coin 3 No
Why because wear is wear. Also you mention that the coins went straight from production into a bag. The problem is that that doesn't matter in the slightest because the Third Party Grader has NO WAY of knowing this information. ALL he knows is he has three coins, two of which show wear, and there is no way to know where or when that wear occurred.

You send in a coin to a TPG they have no knowledge of the background history of that coin and they don't know if it came from a mint bag, a bank roll, a cashiers till, or someone had it in their packet change. All they can do is look at the coin itself and grade based on what they see there. And if is has wear it can't be MS (but thanks to market grading often still is graded MS).

 

I guess I was under the (mistaken) impression that the TPGs could tell the difference betwen ALL wear and CIRCULATION wear.

Clearly, they can't from what you guys say.

Nonetheless, with the employment of market grading, it appears they are trying to incorporate the 2 different kinds of "wear."

 

Is there a technical difference between "wear" and "rub" ?

If there are a bunch of high points, isn't it possible if only one has "wear" that an experienced grader might surmise (correctly or not)....that it was more bag wear than actual circulation wear (since circulation wear would hit all high points equally) ?