Need Help with definition

A grade on a coin is how much wear is on the coin....if the die is worn and has a die crack it seems to me that when it shows the wear on the coin it is therefor NOT MS/PF70.

Mr Breen didn't list erorrs in his book....F.G Spadone never once call a coin a error in his book...he called them Oddities....I think that is about the best way to put it.

Speedy

 

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bzcollektor,

In my knowledge of coin grading, a coin is not only graded on it's condition but also to whether it has flaws or other imperfections! Have you ever seen a coin that has an obvious Die Crack that was graded as MS70 or PF70? I doubt it!


Frank

 

A neat piece of info....
In a book I was looking at it said that the 3-legged Buff was a filled die...

I'm sure that it was changed but I think its neat to see but see such a thing.

Speedy

 

I`m not sure a die crack would negate a coin being an MS70 or PF70. I believe it is based on preservation, not necessarily on die defects, or how well a coin is struck. In other words, Could a PF70 Franklin be a PF70 without FBL? How could a PF70 (or MS70) be one without the full bell lines. One is obviously struck less well than the other. I don`t completely disagree with your premise, I just think other factors are in play here.

 

On Proof Franklins grading they do not list if it has FBL or not...that is only for MS coins...and no...you can have MS66FBL or you can have MS66....

You have a point...but I disagree on some othere points ;--)

Speedy

 

well, just to add some information - at last night's coin club meeting in Topeka, I posed this very question to all the members. Overwhelmingly, they disagreed with me and sided that a cracked die is a mint error.

I'm not saying I agree - because I, personally, don't, BUT there are a LOT of long time collectors in this club (it's a small group, but well experienced - I love being a part of it), and aside from one other guy who said it was not a mint error, everyone else said it is.

 

I knew the FBL would get your attention, Speedy!

 

Yep...when anyone talks about Franklins I have to be in on it...since I don't know alot of about them I like to listen and learn!

Speedy

 

BUT, some strikes don't get to 70, look at 1968 cents, they all look like the die was worn, so a perfectly untouched coin is 65-66. I have many 'untouched' coins that would get 63. It isn't a grade of preservation, it's perfection.

 

I can sure live with this one Speedy, and believe you and Spaldone were correct when you called them "oddities".

Yep! from now on they are "Oddities".

Thanks Speedy!

 

I think that is a good way to put them...who knows...maybe I'll collect some oddities!

Speedy

 

Ok, but you're going to have to pay for my plane ticket!!

 

bzcollektor,

Yes, condition has to do with the state of preservation of a coin but that is not the only factor involved in grading coins! The strength or weakness of the strike, the details and quality thereof, the quality of the fields, quality of the rims, quality of the edge, quality of the original color or the toning are all factors taken into account in the grading process. These areas of a coin being graded and their qualities, are judged against the same of a perfect specimen from the same denomination and series (i.e. flawless MS-70 or PF-70 specimen). Anything that detracts from any of these qualities has an effect on the grade of the coin and weakness of the strike, die cracks, die gouges, die dots, etc. all fall into this category. Please go to the following link for more information on grading coins "http://www.coingrading.com/intro1.html" .....


Frank

 

You know your stuff Frank. I have enjoyed reading your posts on this subject.

 

Great thread. Oddities works for me too.

 

rick,

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I am in no way an expert on coins or coin grading! I just do a lot of research on everything on the things that I have a passion for and coin collecting, trading and selling is my favorite along with Gold and Gem Prospecting as well as Hunting. My wife says that I need to trim down on some of my hobbies and/or business ventures but I have just a little over 3 years before I can retire and I am looking to the future. Another reason that I research information on coins, is so that I won't be taken to the Cleaners anymore on any coin purchases or trades. When I first started out buying and trading for coins, I took some losses because I was not knowledgeable enough about coins, coin grading, counterfeit coins, coin prices, the coin market and unscrupulous Coin Dealers. Well, I learned a valuable lessen from my lack of knowledge, so I invested in quite a few books on coins and began doing lots of research on the Internet! Having a
semi-photographic memory, I retain a lot of information but my memory retains numbers better than written word. Lots of knowledge and of savy are needed to survive in the world of buying and selling coins in quantity and even in collecting coins, so that you won't get taken to the Cleaners.

Good luck and take care!


Frank

 

Something needs to be done about that... ;--)

Speedy

 

I don't believe in errors, they don't exist.

 

Oh yes something has changed! I became aware of such things as "oddities" and both Speedy and myself have decided to gather all these and send them back to the mint for a refund.

Boy, this thread has been worth more than I had hoped for, when it came up with "oddities". What more could I have wanted?

Thanks guys, it is appreciated!