EBay Got This Absolutely Right (for a change)

Excerpted from the newly announced policy changes to go into effect soon:

 

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I applaud this announcement.

Figured it was always a matter of time as the insurance charges fell outside the fees of eBay, and now this essentially drives this cost to be covered in the price of fixed price items where eBay gets a cut.

Regardless, it is the right thing to do for the marketplace, IMO.

 

I also agree! It is the seller's responsibility to get the items to the buyer and it all falls on the seller, not the buyer and that's why items sold as no return, can also be returned if SNAD.

Ribbit

 

As a seller I am very glad that they made this change. I don't agree with many of the other Pay-Pal related changes but this was a good one that is well thought out for a change.

 

you guys realize now you need to insure all your packages you sell and the cost is straight from your pocket (if your a seller that is) and e-bay can charge you more in fees for raising your prices.. and paying a fvf on the money used to pay for insurance is counter productive to a serious seller counting on profits to live on

 

First of all, everyone who has an active account on eBay, whether a Buyer or a Seller is getting this message. It's not really news but it needs to be read and fully understood the impact this is going to have on trading. Alex points to a good thing to consider. I immediately realised these same aspects myself upon reading the changes coming, by this October.

I do not agree with the bolded statement eBay is foisting on Sellers that "In fact, sellers have always been responsible for their items until they arrive safely in their customers' hands." This has NEVER been the case! It's absurd and worded in a very dubious manner. What constitutes "safely" and only signature required delivery services (at additional cost) will deliver a parcel "in (the) customers' hands". This means that no parcel can ever be left unsigned for if "safely in their customers' hands" is to mean what it says. Come on, it's written by morons. Does anyone expect that degree of service to start coming out of eBay transactions?

Once the parcel is deposited in the security of any postal system or delivery service provider by the Seller, the Seller is wholly absolved of responsibility in delivery let alone safe delivery. If a Buyer waives the optional shipping insurance offered by the Seller (which many people think is unneccessary since you can call PayPal out on any Seller to reimburse you, that's NOT insurance, that's using PayPal as a menacing bully) and if anything along the way causes damage to the parcel, its contents or loss of the package, that is the Buyers error. Let me tell you, the USPS and UPS are barbarians when it comes to handling packages and auto sort facilities shread things daily. This has nothing to do with Seller responsibility. PayPal and their SNADs, or whatever they come up with next cannot replace true shipping insurance which every company offers to shippers, something a Buyer must pay for or waive at their own risk. I have always disclaimed postal and delivery mishandling while the item is in transit between the point that I deposit an item for delivery until it reaches the Buyer. I write this into the shipping terms of my auctions which resides next to an item description for every auction. It never causes a problem and nearly all Buyers waive insurance. Fortunately, few items are ever lost or damaged in transit, but it does happen and so do shipping delays. What's more, how does this statement affect International shipping? International Insurance doesn't cover the item once it leave the departing country unless you purchase through premium carriers. Doubt this is going to happen on eBay anytime soon either. International shipping is something I always disclaim to all buyers reading my auctions. I do not offer it and it is a waste of money as it doesn't cover items during their entire journey.

If a package is insured and it or it's contents arrive damaged a claim can be filed with the shipping/delivery service for a loss. It is totally unacceptable for eBay to dictate otherwise and Buyers are assuming irresponsibly that they can utilize PayPal for issues outside the realm of the Sellers control or to further cause the Seller to incur greater cost and risk in dealing via eBay.

I think these new updates will do exactly as the business news reports this week have been discussing that eBay's intentions are to move away from auction style listings and independent Sellers by implementing rules that squeeze out profitability until the Sellers capitulate or leave, and that eBay is favoring ever more the big Sellers with Stores and ability to conduct business like a major retailer might conduct online. There are so many problems with the new updates but I'd rather not turn CT into more of a defacto eBay rant forum than it already is becoming.

These new updates from eBay are not all welcome and I suspect are steaming a lot of people this week.

 

Gak!

It's not a "perception that buyers need to purchase shipping insurance as a protection on eBay," it's for their item once in transit. Maybe eBay needs to make the feature more clearly defined on their optional services features so Buyers understand that shipping insurance means when the item is "in transit" not for protection "on eBay".

 

I agree with krispy, If something is lost or damaged then you as a seller just lost your money, coin and the cost to list it and the paypal fees. I'm sure ebay and paypal won't return your money for these cost. Everytime I turn around ebay is making it harder on the seller and as a seller on ebay it will make me think twice about selling my coins on ebay anymore. Besides I always refund there money if there not happy isn't that the reason they only want you to use paypal. I've talked to people that tell me that paypal will even refunded there money and could care less if you even get your coin back, what a scam!!!
Thanks itsallngoodtime
Bob

 

Obviously you are unfamiliar with the Uniform Commercial Code, which absolutely does not consider title to pass when an item is deposited with a carrier; and risk of loss or damage always follows title. In other words, until delivery of goods, legally the risk of loss is on the seller, and that applies to commercial transactions whether or not they involve eBay. Except in very limited circumstances, including a statement in advertising that doesn't comply with applicable law is meaningless. If you weren't compelled to make good on undelivered merchandise it was because of the buyer's ignorance, or the practicalities of enforcing the law, not because you weren't legally responsible.

 

:bow:

 

i believe all traders big or small have to take risks as part of buisines and should take responsibility for THEIR goods until they are delivered, we the little buyers have to give our money to the traders before getting what we ordered, it is after all our cash and so we should be protected, it will of course mean that in order to maintain their profits the traders will put up their prices, but ask yourselves how often does something you've ordered go missing in the post. mike. :whistle:

 

It all looks like another strike agains legitimate sellers to me.

Any legitimate seller that has been burned by ebay and paypal in the past will see it this way. At work we have seen this as it has happened to us.

Has ebay EVER considered the fact that a lot of BUYERS can't be trusted? Not as long as the fees keep rolling in.

This is what caused me to leave Overstock and ebay eventually.


Hooray for the buyers! Let's chase away more seller!

 

"Once the parcel is deposited in the security of any postal system or delivery service provider by the Seller, the Seller is wholly absolved of responsibility in delivery let alone safe delivery."

Enough said.

 

"we the little buyers have to give our money to the traders before getting what we ordered,"

...you are overlooking that Sellers also have to pay fees upfront to list items, and it's not just for one item a Seller may be concerned about their losses as opposed to each Buyer worrying about each or a few items they bought. A Seller may list 100 or many more items and is therefore already out $100+ in fees before they start to see bids adding up to cover losses or before even one item sells to cover just some of those costs.

The risk of loss for a Seller is equal to that of a Buyer, both parties are worried that paying before getting either funds for merchandise in return will cause them a loss. That's part of doing business on eBay. eBay was idealistically founded on trust and by nature I try to maintain that trust with complete strangers but I know that I can be exploited at any moment for being trusting and dealing with unscrupulous buyers and sellers.

I know any business comes with overhead and that as a Seller, I'm responsible for dealing with its cost, not complaining about how to make it free or bent in my favor by passing totally passing the buck. I understand it costs money to make money. That's part of the game, and it's part of the risk. As a Seller, I NEVER complain about eBay's fees because I chose to deal there using their service. I have often felt slighted as a Seller by eBay's evolving policy but I always look for how the cost of dealing on eBay impacts my success and reward for selling. I review the policy updates and try to adjust my listings to minimize my costs on eBay or I switch to selling items that will make enough money to cover and return with some profit. I never look at eBay as a venue for cost free trading. I never look at eBay as a place of Buyer verses Seller. I'm both and I feel that that alone should be a requirement of using eBay. It shows you how things really are on both sides of the spectrum.

 

in a short statement:
I agree with Krispy.

So, now we just have to include insurance with the P&H.

 

Doug, I agree 100% with what your saying. Gang, sit back and look at what they are saying. If you purchase a coin from AJ or Charmy, you pay them for it, They ship the coin out in the mail and you never receive the coin. Who eats it if no insurance is purchased? I just sold something on ebay about 6 weeks ago, had delivery confirmation on it but no insurance. Buyer says item never received, I returned her money after 30 days and who knows.. Maybe she will get the item today, I will never see the money from it. Delivery confirmation says I shipped it, but it was not delivered. ebay and paypal both dinged me on this. My responsibility to get the item to the buyer pure and simple. I didn't deliver because I choose to risk NOT buying insurance. $50.00 gone.


Doug, please step away from the computer for a few minutes, I can see the veins popping up in your forehead.. Sit down, take a deep breath. : )

 

GDJMSP! Yes, I very much agree with your comments about the reality and costs of doing business and that those who gripe and complain about these costs or expect a free lunch fundamentally do not understand business nor the vendor they are using that allows them to conduct their businesses online. To me they are greedy and think eBay is a place to go for free money. The reality is that doesn't exist.

I'm not sure if you lumped my earlier, lengthy and miffed comment about Sellers shipping responsibility into your reply or not. However, despite my complaints about eBay's policy, bolded in the first OP, that as a Seller I am responsible for getting items 'safely' to a Buyer even after depositing an item (insured or not) into the post and until it reaches the Buyer, I want to point out that up to this point, the option for Buyers to purchase or waive shipping insurance was always there and for them to understand or question what the service was for (not as a protection for use ON eBay as eBay implies was misleading and thus reason for removing the feature.) and the existence of that service option negates eBay now saying it was always the Sellers responsibility. Shipping Insurance was the only way a Seller could provide protection all the way through the distance between a Buyer and Seller. eBay seems to think it's inconsistent with online retailers who do not offer shipping insurance options, but many do, some by virtue of shipping with FedEx or UPS with shipping insurance either built into their costs for low value parcels and for the customer to pay additionally for when the merchandise exceeds a certain value. All business that I have ever dealt with as a buyer pass on this fee to the buyer, either they build the costs into the cost of the product and do not tell you the breakdown or they itemize it for you, and some give you shipping options. I am a Seller not a Retailer and there is no way that I am to be held responsible for the cost and safety of an item not safely reaching its destination if a Buyer waives their right to insure. There is no way I am going to absorb shipping costs for the Buyers sake. If they want to bid and buy, it's part of the cost of doing so. The safety responsibility is agreed that the party in between the buyer and seller, the carrier is responsible, but only if the parcel is insured, which again falls back on the buyer.

Shipping Insurance is a very important feature and it is a risk that a Buyer was always able to take on with using eBay whereas other retailers force you to pay for it in their service/costs for everything. Risk is a two way street. It's one of the things many liked about eBay, allowing users to assess the risk and take a chance, risking the odds that you will save money to get your item, spending less by avoiding (subjectively) 'unneccssary' shipping fees. Shipping fees and Insurance fees have risen since 1998 when eBay was coming up. Now that eBay is removing the Shipping Insurance feature and saying Sellers are (and always had been) responsible it will certainly great a new gray area of responsibility and it will likely spark greater mistrust between Buyers and Sellers as well allow Buyers to vent frustration on Sellers through misapplied complaints to PayPal as a mediator when it should have been the carrier who repaid for lost/damaged properly insured parcels or the buyers risk/loss for waiving the shipping insurance.

I find that it's another step away from trust between parties using eBay. The bolded segment of the OP is not that black-and-white of a statement for eBay to have placed in the updated policies but in the end it leads to both parties paying more and more for things they buy and sell when systems were already established to handle losses and taking a risk was an option. Taking risk out of eBay is turning eBay away from what it was to begin with. I suspect as you asked where will people go, they will go where the path of least resistance is and where the buyers are willing to follow. Any established trading place venue is going to end up like this at some point as it becomes saturated with less than desirable dealers, scams and too difficult to navigate without this much red tape and fees or responsibility imbalanced. It creates a cycle that disperses the market. I don't know the economic terminology for this but you see things like this occur in any sector or area of interest. When something is new and not widely or easily found, it has an aura about it, or it's "cool" or it's a "good deal", but when too many people flock to it, or it becomes an easy place to make a profit, it starts to become uncool, and exploited as it becomes more mainstream and routine or filled with rules that once were uneccessary.

To be sure, I'm not complaining about the cost of dealing with eBay, with shipping nor dealing anywhere else online but I am taking issue of where responsibility lies when a parcel is insured or the option to insure it was waived. And that this is in principle now very misleading with eBay's latest policy update and interpretation of how Buyers will read and utilize this.

People aren't just crazy, though they may exhibit the symptoms, they're more often cheap and misunderstand, costs, values, markets, services and risk/reward.

 

LOL! about the veins... And a good example too. However, the Buyer should understand that they are purchasing shipping insurance, as it's structured to work with a carrier when purchased, that way you get to repay the Buyer for their loss and you can place a claim with the shipping company for your loss and you don't eat any costs. eBay always allowed buyers to risk not buying shipping insurance to save money on shipping, it's not the Seller responsibility, or at least it will not be until these new rules take effect on eBay in October.

 

Am I Wrong? When you ship an item, is not your shipment automatically insured up to a $500.00 limit ?As any responsible seller would, I think, purchase actual replacement value insurance if that does not adequately cover the parcel. Must we always have to lead people by the nose to do the responsible thing? If I sell an item for say $1,000.00 I am going to assume responsibility for the additional insurance. Thats is a cost of doing business. IMHO