Coin buying education 101-1

There has been as usual, many auctions which have been url-ed on ebay to draw attention to a specific point or discussion as to value or lack thereof. Most often the photos are not the best. I would like to offer as a lesson in coin buying this post. I am not the teacher, the posters will be teaching and learning at the same time.

This coin is not for sale. It is the example used.

This coin is graded ( or BB, or detailed) of a big 4 TPG.


So pretend this is the listing I have put on my auction, and then post what you think as to price and condition. After some action , I will tell you the results. AGAIN, this is a pretend auction and I hope the moderators allow it to go as I will not sell this coin. In financial groups it is called "paper money" so you can trade stocks on paper and not lose your money until you are ready.

Pretend ad: ( I can mislead also in this ad :smile
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RARE 1921 High Relief Peace Dollar. Grading is objective. Use my photos to make your decision. Buy it now for $250 or best offer.



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Ok, what do you think? offer grading/ condition/ price/ suggestions
and why you say so.

It has already been TPGed, so you won't offend or anything. Again
this is not an offer to sell, nor any offer, it is a pretend learning experience. A lab practical if you would.

Jim

 

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I don't think that is a high relief, so BO at $18 and see what happens.

 

Hard to say from that image. 1921 Peace dollars are common coins. Here are a few images from Teletrade that I used for comparison.

Based on comparisons with the three images below, I'd rate the coin in the original post behind all three and might value it at $70 or so. There are distractions on the cheek and neck. Can't really tell if it has been messed with from the image. Don't know the series that well, so AU seems about the grade range.

The bottom line is that because the 1921 Peace is such a common coin, I wouldn't offer at all based on my best guess at $70 value, with a $250 ask-best offer listing. Of the three coins I found in a few minutes, I'd go for something like the ICG coin with a $150 hammer price.

#1 NGC AU58 $230 hammer



#2 ANACS 58-details cleaned $110 hammer


#3 ICG AU58 $150 hammer

 

Noost, ALL 1921 Peace dollars are high relief.

As for the coins Redtiger posted I think the ICG looks pretty decent. The ANACS and NGC coins I do not like the appearance of at all. I would take the ICG over either of them.

The coin in the OP at first glance looks more attractive to me than any of the the three pieces the Redtiger posted. But it also looks like it may have been cleaned and hairlined long ago and has now retoned.

Yes 1921 peace dollars are "common" but they are also pricey for their availability. It isn't the best guide but CoinValues lists it at $135 in VG so Noost your $18 would be somewhat insulting. And it would have to be cleaned and hairlined for Redtigers $70 value to be even close. My problem is that I don't believe it is possible to grade a coin higher than AU using photos. Too much uncertanty over the quality of the photo, how well it represents the coin, possible errors introduced by your computers software, and just the fact that a computer screens resolution is not sufficient to show the subtle differences between AU and MS. Let alone the different MS grades.

So I would not be willing to value it at more than AU or in the $190 to $200 range. So No I would not do a $250 BIN. Seen in hand it might be better, but not just from the pictures.

 

Nice strike. Looks like wispy hairlines, but with lots of luster. I'd buy it. I grade it MS-63.

Is it one of the 100,000 first strikes?

 

Sorry, brain malfunction. Was thinking 1922.

 

Well, I was all ready to weigh in and say it looks cleaned and I don't like what looks like hairlines on the obverse and then I read Rick's post and I don't know. I will fall back on the fact I don't know Peace dollars but if I saw a Walker from the 20's with that color, I would run away from it.

 

I can't put my finger on it, but something just looks off with that coin. Perhaps it was cleaned long ago, maybe it is just the photos, I don't know. It just doesn't look right. It wouldn't surprise me if it was net graded XF40 with AU Details. I think $75-$100 would be fair price, but I personally would never buy that coin. No way that coin is going to sell at $250.

The problem is that all of the TPG's are very lenient with the 1921 Peace Dollar IMO. I have seen some absolute dogs in AU55 holders of both NGC and PCGS. Not to mention that it is extremely difficult to separate wear from weak strike from photographs with this issue. You really need the coin in hand to ensure there are no luster breaks.

I have been searching for a gem 1921 for my collection for over a year with not luck. Almost everyone I see has something that stops me from buying it. Here is one that I loved and had to pass because the price was too high.

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1126&Lot_No=1577#photo

 

PCGS Genuine 7356.92/xxxxxxxx
$130
It's a stab in the dark, my grade/cost above... but I really feel it's impossible to tell in these photos, which by the way, are much better than most eBay representations of coins in auction, but I'm worried by what looks like corrosion/spots (image pixelation?) on the reverse due to earlier improper cleaning. These 'spots' appear to me: left of "U" United or between "D•S" but all along the rim from 4 o'clock to 11 o'clock. Maybe it's even a split grade for each side...

 

I agree with many here on this thread and I would definately pass on this coin and I'll tell you why; 1921 Peace Dollars are relatively flat across the grades in value, therefore I would never buy what even hinted at being a problem coin for this date. The price will be very close on a coin that grades 1 grade lower or higher.

Problem coins are exactly that, a problem. You will always be somewhat disappointed with them, and they will be more difficult to sell when the time comes.

 

oh, and BTW conder, While we agree that for the grade we don't like the ANACS coin, you can have the ICG coin, I'll take the NGC coin over it every day. The ICG coin doesn't look like the right color to me. It looks enhanced somehow. That is the thing about internet pics though, you really can't tell.

 

Pass. I simply don't like the look of the coin.

 

AU $170-$190

No I would not buy it.

 

IMO something looks wrong and I would not buy the coin no matter what price unless melt.

 

does anyone see a double-strike on the date?

 

I like the coin, for a 21 the eagle has a nice strike, but the chatter on the obverse leads me to believe it's an AU58. So I would pass at $250.

 

Yes, it appears to be machine doubling (interesting but not a DDO).

 

I would pass on it. It appears to be cleaned and the photos seem designed to hide any flaws. I would grade it a problem AU. On general principles, I wouldn't bid on the coin on Ebay unslabbed.

 

Ok, Probably enough time, I will put the results up this evening to be sure. I will try to take some post analysis photos of the areas discussed. I will check the area Krispy mentioned.

Doug, any particular area you suspected the tooling? I could enlarge it.

I will do the date also.

I know a lot of decisions are made by gut feelings, so I understand why some don't mention why they say it is a problem coin, but if you have input that might help others. Such as where you might see something I can present larger photos of that area to help the less experienced.

Thanks

Jim