I was stumped with this one. If this coin was cleaned it was done so 20+ years ago. What do you think?
It wouldn't matter if it was harshly cleaned last week or a 100 years ago - once it's done it's done and nothing can reverse it. Well, almost nothing. It could be carried in your pocket long enough for additional wear to wear off all traces of the harsh cleaning, but that would also drop the grade that much further. And that would serve no purpose because the value drop right along with it. But how do they know ? They know from looking at the coin. If you are saying that you can't tell from looking at it that it has been harshly cleaned then you need more experience in detecting harshly cleaned coins.
Okay - so in this case they saw specific patterns in the metal? Kind of like swirl marks in the paint of a car? I honestly can't tell that this coin has been cleaned. I ask also because I have another coin that came back as "questionable color". From what I gather it was cleaned in a different manner than using some kind of abrasive.
Harshly or improperly cleaned coins have a certain look to them, actually several different looks. Your coin has one of them. It appears to have been harshly cleaned and then re-toned in an effort to cover up the harsh cleaning. But if you know what to look for, the tell take signs can't be covered up. As I said, it requires a certain level of experience to see this in many cases. You are not alone in that it doesn't look to have harshly cleaned to you. Many others can't tell either. Questionable color is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with harsh/improper cleaning. They mean that they think the coin may have been artificially toned. Now they may be right or they may be wrong, they do not and cannot say unequivocably either way. So when they are unsure if the toning is natural or not - they say questionable color.
I see - thanks for explaining. I could understand this better if I purchased the coin off ebay or something, but the coin was acquired by my uncle at least 35 years ago, and to my knowledge he wasn't serious about coins or cleaning and re-toning them. In this case it is a 1901 cent. It does look brighter than other similar cents I have. Could the copper have changed color from someone dipping it in a chemical?
.......some info on determining if a coin is cleaned, tavenger5. http://coins.about.com/od/caringforcoins/f/shiny_coins.htm
http://coinauctionshelp.com/page22.html This link will give you a start in learning to detect cleaned coins. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes not.
I've experimented with cleaning silver coins in the past not only to see how they would turn out but to try to educate myself on how to spot them and this one looks just like how some of them turn out especially when dipped (explained below). Coins that are very dirty with a greasy film on them I'm sure you know the ones we've all seen them. When you dip them and try to wipe the grim off it leaves that dull gray finish. Also when you dry the coin if you rub it between your fingers with a towel it gets those swirl marks. If you have some old worthless dirty silver coins try this you'll see what I mean. Take a glass bowl line it with aluminum foil add hot tap water as hot as you can get it, add 2 tbsp of baking soda and 2 tsp Salt drop the coins in the hot water let them sit for 5 minutes you should see all the toning disappear immediately, remove them and rinse with hot water now dry them with a soft cloth the dirty greasy ones rub them between your fingers with the soft towel to remove the grease and leftover dirt and voila clean but with the grayish finsih just like the coin in the photo.
Most Likely your uncle received it cleaned, as cleaning was an unfortunate, but common technique of collection and displaying many decades ago. As knowledge and techniques have changed, many collectors have ditched their cleaned coin on ebay, but many purchased a long time ago, and have retoned, are sent to TPGs and decisions are made there. I can't see through most of the toning on the obverse to tell cleaning marks, and I am not sure of the light spots ( base of cap, front of eyes) is actual color or if glare. If that disparity with color is on the coin, that is one indication. The reverse seems much more affected. I can see where the inner area of the lettering is cleaner( lighter) than the surrounding patina ( like the "C" in AMERICA), and other places where one would normally expect darker, it is lighter. That said, I could only say in my mind "suspected" if it didn't have the 3rd party designation by the photos. Much of such problems are only seen by tilting the coin in light and good magnification with resolution. Even if a person has the best resolving camera lens, shooting through common plastic reduces the lens to like a plastic magnifier (resolution wise). That is why if one wants accurate photos for later use, do it before having it slabbed. I wish I had figured this out before I sent off some of mine. Jim
Great Question. I have been wondering about that same thing too. I bet they sometimes know it by telling that one tiny little sop is cleaner than the whole coin.
Excellent reading material. In my opinion TPG's are also more harsh on some coins than others. Morgans being so plentiful they can be harsh on them at times - with the exception of a few key dates and mint marks. I believe the definition of "harsh" cleaning varies at times. Just my opinion.
Absolutely. Or, the color was intentionally caused in order to fool unsuspecting buyers to pay more than it was really worth.
Sometimes you can infer, or be certain, that a coin has been cleaned from photos, but many times you cannot. The only way to tell for certain is to look at the coin in a dim room, with a low power glass and a point source light (LED or halogen) while moving the light or the coin around, tilting and rotating it. Cleaning will be seen as long, wispy parallel lines that sweep across both the fields AND the devices, not as the random, short, scattered hairlines from circulation. Sometimes, cleaning was done on a specific area- usually in the field-- and will appear as a dense cluster of fine lines. If the coin has retoned over the marks- as appears to be the case with the coin in the o.p.-- the signs of cleaning can be nearly invisible at arm's length. IMO, the PCGS 'genuine' service is a valuable one. You simply CANNOT be certain from photos that a coin has NOT been cleaned. For instance: This coin has numerous fine hairlines under the toning. Using the technique mentioned earlier, fine wispy hairlines can be seen sweeping diagonally across the entire obverse, indicating a cleaning, but they are not visible in the photo.
